Repeat Incorrect Flashcards

[9Life42]

I'm trying very hard to switch from Anki's to Pleco's flashcard system, but I'm having a lot of trouble so far with learning new cards. Anki is really smart about helping me learn new cards, with Pleco I find it so difficult.

If you don't know a new card then Anki will show it to you again in a minute or two (and keep showing it to you every couple of minutes until you remember it). After the first time that you answer a card correctly it will wait 10 minutes before showing it to you again to make sure you can actually remember it for a little while and if you answer it correctly again it will be scheduled for tomorrow. Is there any possible way to get this same sort of set up with Pleco?

I have tried the option to restudy failed cards at the end of the session, but that isn't the same at all. If I go through 75 new cards then I will need to go through all 75 again, but by then it has been too long and I don't remember any of them. Anki is perfect about giving me my cards right before I begin to forget them and Pleco is good about that as well once I learn them, but I'm struggling without some sort of learning mode.

Am I missing something or how do other people do it?

 

[mikelove]

If you don't know a new card then Anki will show it to you again in a minute or two (and keep showing it to you every couple of minutes until you remember it). After the first time that you answer a card correctly it will wait 10 minutes before showing it to you again to make sure you can actually remember it for a little while and if you answer it correctly again it will be scheduled for tomorrow. Is there any possible way to get this same sort of set up with Pleco?

Not exactly like that, no - actually, we've had hardly any requests for something like this (in spite of the popularity of Anki), far fewer than for other, more esoteric flashcard system features like better support for cloze sentence flashcards. We're still planning to add this as an option the next time we revamp the flashcard system, though, since it's something a lot of other apps do offer and we don't like to disappoint people.

For now, I'd recommend mixing up test profiles; create another profile just for new cards, one with a Card Filter set up to require that cards be reviewed less than X number of times and with Scoring System (in Scoring) set to "None" so that it won't actually modify the cards' scores. Run through that profile a few times to review all of your new cards, then switch back to your regular profile and review them with SRS in that.

A more sophisticated alternative would be to use filters in both; create one profile for new cards, again with a card filter but this one tied to correct answers ("Record Filter," include card if "times correct" is "<" (some number)), Scoring system in Scoring set to "Stats only" so that it'll record them as correctly answered but won't actually increase their intervals, and the card selection system in Card Selection set to "Random." Then, create another profile for regular card reviews, this one with a filter requiring "times correct" to be >= that same threshold, Scoring system set to the usual "Automatic" and card selection to repetition spaced.

With this setup, your new cards will come up frequently in that one profile until they've been answered correct enough times to graduate to the other profile, at which point they enter the usual SRS system. (so pretty much the only difference from Anki's approach would be that the two types of card aren't mixed together)

Also: if you're unhappy with your flashcard purchase and don't think you can get it working to your satisfaction, let us know and we'll be happy to offer you a refund.

 

[9Life42]

That isn't exactly what I'm looking for, but I'll give the filtered profiles a try. What card selection system (random, weighted, etc.) do you sugest using for learning before cards go into SRS?

I eagerly await the update to the flashcard learning system. The old version of Anki didn't have quite this sophisticated of a learning system if I remember correctly and it wasn't until I tried the new version with the new learning system that I realized how indispensable it was to me. Perhaps people don't know what they're missing (as I didn't). Anyway, I'm glad to hear it's a planed feature.

And no, I don't want a refund. Pleco is still the most used app on my phone and you guys have such good support that I like to return the favor.

Thanks!

 

[mikelove]

That isn't exactly what I'm looking for, but I'll give the filtered profiles a try. What card selection system (random, weighted, etc.) do you sugest using for learning before cards go into SRS?

Random - Weighted is almost certainly going away in our next update, and random should distribute them pretty evenly which is what you want for initial learning.

I eagerly await the update to the flashcard learning system. The old version of Anki didn't have quite this sophisticated of a learning system if I remember correctly and it wasn't until I tried the new version with the new learning system that I realized how indispensable it was to me. Perhaps people don't know what they're missing (as I didn't). Anyway, I'm glad to hear it's a planed feature.

It's in Skritter too, actually, and has been for a while - honestly I'm surprised it's not a more popular request.

And no, I don't want a refund. Pleco is still the most used app on my phone and you guys have such good support that I like to return the favor.

Thank you!

 

[HW60]

If you don't know a new card then Anki will show it to you again in a minute or two (and keep showing it to you every couple of minutes until you remember it). After the first time that you answer a card correctly it will wait 10 minutes before showing it to you again to make sure you can actually remember it for a little while and if you answer it correctly again it will be scheduled for tomorrow. Is there any possible way to get this same sort of set up with Pleco?

Not exactly like that, no - actually, we've had hardly any requests for something like this (in spite of the popularity of Anki), far fewer than for other, more esoteric flashcard system features like better support for cloze sentence flashcards. We're still planning to add this as an option the next time we revamp the flashcard system, though, since it's something a lot of other apps do offer and we don't like to disappoint people.

In Pleco you have to start a new flashcard session by yourself - Pleco does not "wait 10 minutes before showing it to you again". But with Pleco's advanced settings you can try to come close to Anki's settings.

One day in Pleco has by default 100 points, e.g. a card with a score of 100 will be repeated the next day (or 24 hours later, depending on settings). If you choose a value of 1 for the score after looking at the card, the card will be due 1/100 days = 14 minutes and 24 seconds later, which is not close to 1 or 2 minutes, but you actually have to finish a session before you can start a new one, and depending on the number of cards per session that may take more than 1 or 2 minutes. If you use answer quality 4, 5 or 6 for different increases (e.g. 1, 10, 100 for 14 minutes, 2 hours 24 minutes and 1 day), you can choose Anki like times for repetition.

 

[9Life42]

That is a good idea. I actually tried that and even thought of increasing the number of points that equal a day so that I could get, say 1/300 = 5 minutes. This could work, but I would need to limit a session to about 10 cards to make such small scheduling intervals work and that isn't really ideal either. I've been using a filtered deck so far to "pre" study cards until I answer them correctly several times in a row (as per mikelove's suggestion), but I still need to have short sessions to get close to the desired result. I like the idea though and I'll try it again with some new settings to see how it goes. Thanks!

 

[HW60]

I actually only posted to show that it might work with Pleco, but as the handling of 2 or 10 or 20 minutes intervals is rather complicated with Pleco (and Anki), I prefer a paper vocabulary list during the first 2 or 3 days of learning new words, hiding one side and trying to remember. Then I slowly increase the score to 200 instead of Pleco's default 600, and then Pleco is perfect for learning and repeating - for me! There are lots of very different ways of course.

 

[9Life42]

You are right, it didn't really work and I ended up resetting my study profiles. What do you mean by slowly increase the score from 200 to 600?

Sorry about the late reply, but I've been studying hard and wanted to experiment with different settings...

If anybody is interested, I have finally found a method that seems to be working fairly well for learning new words. I set up three new profiles (besides the SRS profile I use for long term study), each with a different score fille, each set to only show a handful of new cards at a time, and each one set to only show a card until it has been answered correctly at least once. The first profile tests character recognition, the second tests pinyin recognition, and the third gives me the definition and I have to remember the character and pinyin. Once I answer a card correctly once in each profile it "graduates" out and once I have "graduated" all of the cards in the character recognition profile I will go on to test myself on pinyin and finally the definition. Once all the cards have "graduated" out of all three profiles I consider them "learned" and I start practicing them over the long term with SRS.

Maybe this will prove helpful for somebody who is looking for a better learning mode.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[HW60]

You are right, it didn't really work and I ended up resetting my study profiles. What do you mean by slowly increase the score from 200 to 600?

In Review Flashcards/Scoring/Tweak Parameters you can set the INITIAL CORRECT SCORE to 200. I darkly remember that the default value was 600, but it is a long time ago that I changed it. With 200 a correct answered card will come again 2 days later instead of 6.

 

[9Life42]

Oh, yes, I believe you are correct about it being 600 by default. I thought Pleco advanced cards to quickly at first so I set the initial correct scores lower as well. As an experiment, I also set the scaling for a quality 4 answer down to -10 so that any new cards I don't know that well will show up again that day (the score will actually decrease slightly).

It's been surprisingly hard figuring out what works best for me while studying, but I'm loving the customizability of Pleco.

 

[rustamk]

to 9Life42

Can you share your Pleco flashcard profiles for learning new words (backups or etc)? I face the same problem.

Thanks.

 

[9Life42]

No problem, I'll type it up here, but if you want I can share a backup of my database. I just figure it will be easier to make the profiles yourself rather than deal with juggling databases. These are the parameters that I remember changing in the "Simple" profile before duplicating it three times:

Basic Settings:
Max # of cards: All
Show: (profile 1: Characters, profile 2: Pinyin, profile 3: Definition)
Card filters--> History Filter: (check)--> Include card if: not correct in a row--> Is >=: 1

End-of-session:
Save session: never save
Show statistics: (uncheck)

Card selection:
Manage unlearned: (uncheck)
Limit new cards: (check)--> Limit by: maximum unlearned--> To: (profile 1: 15, profile 2: 25, profile 3: 35)

Scoring:
Scorefile: (create a new one for each profile)
Scoring system: Stats only

I also have some miscellaneous changes to the layout of cards and the test screen, but these settings should get you the three learning profiles that I use. I have an SRS profile set up with an additional score card that I use after graduating cards out of these three profiles. I would be happy to share my SRS settings as well if you'd like, but I'm still playing around with them myself actually.

Note that the only way this method really works is if you have your vocabulary split up into categories. If you have hundreds or thousands of cards in the same category and you want to start learning them all at the same time, I don't think these settings will work that well. Each profile will show you cards in a random order from the selected categories so when you switch from your "character recognition" to your "pinyin recognition" profiles the random order of words will change and if the pool is larger than the amount you plan to study in one sitting you won't be studying the same cards you were in the previous profile. You have to be able to "graduate" all selected cards before going on to the next profile. This isn't a problem for me though because I have cards split up into lessons and I learn a whole lesson's vocabulary in one sitting. The one exception to this would be categories of cards that you add to little by little and study regularly so that you only have a handful of "ungraduated" cards at a time, even if the category itself accumulates hundred's of cards over time. (You could also set the card selection to not be random I think, but I don't like that method much.)

Hope this is helpful! Good luck!

 

[Pontus Gagge]

I'm also trying on the Pleco flashcards to replace my recently-begun and so far Anki-supported Chinese studies, and am a bit surprised at not having an option for being nagged until I answer a card correctly during a session. (Answering it correctly doesn't mean I've learned it; but being nagged eventually beats any word into my reluctant brain.)

Any plans for when the next update of the flashcard system might be coming?

 

[mikelove]

I'm also trying on the Pleco flashcards to replace my recently-begun and so far Anki-supported Chinese studies, and am a bit surprised at not having an option for being nagged until I answer a card correctly during a session. (Answering it correctly doesn't mean I've learned it; but being nagged eventually beats any word into my reluctant brain.)

Any plans for when the next update of the flashcard system might be coming?

That option is there - "End-of-session" / "Repeat incorrect" with the "Loop" and "Shuffle" options also enabled.

Flashcard system is probably getting two major updates this year, one in conjunction with the new iOS app update that will (hopefully) add cloud sync and make a few refinements to the UI to make it a bit less perplexing, and one later (end-of-year, probably) that'll make some more dramatic changes including getting rid of a bunch of rarely-used features and adding a bunch of new ones.

 

[Pontus Gagge]

That option is there - "End-of-session" / "Repeat incorrect" with the "Loop" and "Shuffle" options also enabled.

Flashcard system is probably getting two major updates this year, one in conjunction with the new iOS app update that will (hopefully) add cloud sync and make a few refinements to the UI to make it a bit less perplexing, and one later (end-of-year, probably) that'll make some more dramatic changes including getting rid of a bunch of rarely-used features and adding a bunch of new ones.

Ah. I found it. Thanks!

I take it there's no way of getting repeats interspersed with new cards, instead of a session-ending naming and shaming? Not that I'm necessarily advocating additional perplexing configuration options, you understand!

 

[mikelove]

I take it there's no way of getting repeats interspersed with new cards, instead of a session-ending naming and shaming? Not that I'm necessarily advocating additional perplexing configuration options, you understand!

No, but that's in the works for our next big flashcard update.

 

[nicholas.wright]

I'd really like to see a simple option added for that will repeat cards immediately when you get them wrong and continue until you get it right, with an option you can set for how many times it will repeat even after you get it right to really make sure you've got it in memory before moving on.

 

[mikelove]

I'd really like to see a simple option added for that will repeat cards immediately when you get them wrong and continue until you get it right, with an option you can set for how many times it will repeat even after you get it right to really make sure you've got it in memory before moving on.

We're planning to incorporate something a little like this into the next version of our SRS system, but it would not be designed to show you the card immediately, rather it would come up just a few minutes later (rather than days) and during the same test.