Beta 3 Flashcard Changes

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Separate thread since it's launching a couple of specific new things (and good to lump all of the flashcard-specific discussion together anyhow).

After much introspection we've decided to heavily overhaul the New Session and Manage Flashcards interfaces in Beta 3, as follows:

New Session by default will bring you to one screen, with no tabs and probably not even a profile list (that may end up in Flashcard Central or may just be hidden by default). There are three things you can configure on this screen; "Test Me On", which gives you checkboxes for "Reading," "Writing," "Listening," and "Stroke Order," "Question Type" which has checkboxes for Multiple-choice, Free-answer, and Self-scored, and # of cards, which most likely will *not* include an "Endless" option in this screen's version of it.

"Reading" shows you only a flashcard's characters; in multi-choice mode you're prompted to choose the Pinyin and definition, in free-answer just the Pinyin. "Writing" shows you pinyin and definition and asks you to choose or enter the characters, Listening plays audio and asks you to choose the definition or enter the Pinyin. The "Stroke Order" and "Self-scored" options are each exclusive, disabling all of the other checkboxes in that area, but the others can be combined, allowing you (at long last!) to test cards in multiple ways in the same session. You would not necessarily see each card in each mode, the system would simply pull up X number of cards in one mode, then X number in another, and so on, sort of like a test in Chinese class giving you 10 reading questions, 10 writing questions, etc; a high-frequency card might come up in more than one mode but the software wouldn't be doing anything so specifically ensure that that happened (or didn't happen).

There's also an Advanced button in New Session that takes you to pretty much the same interface as now, except that now in the first screen Test Mode only has Review Only, Self-Scored, Pleco-Scored and Stroke Order options, the Pleco-Scored one gives you checkboxes to enable each of the 6 possible combinations (read/write/listen combined with mc or free) and the Self-Scored mode gives you its ow read/write/listen checkboxes. Each of these boxes (in either mode) has a Setup button next to it which allows you to customize exactly which fields are displayed / tested on, limit that particular mode to a certain range of score values, and emphasize that mode in the session (so you'd see twice as many cards from it as from non-emphasized modes). We're not yet sure how to rectify Endless mode with switching between question types, most likely we'll pick a reasonably small number of cards (say 5) and cycle through that number of cards in each mode.

In Basic (non-advanced) mode, scoring is Automatic and cards are chosen using frequency-adjusted rather than repetition-spaced review; we feel this is much better for novice users, since with repetition spacing you can get into the confusing situation of having no cards left to review that day. We thought about making it look ahead to find the next day when you have cards to review and review those, but that kind of seems like it's defeating the whole purpose of graduated recall. There most likely will be a "Choose Categories" button at the bottom of the screen, since even novice users would likely find it important to choose one or two specific lists of cards to review from.

But basically, by replacing the confusing Show / Ask options with the nice friendly concepts of Reading / Writing / Listening, we both make the system easier to use and make it possible to implement multi-modal sessions, two things which it seems like a lot of people would really like to see.

As for Manage Cards, the big issues with that screen now (as we see them, anyway) are that the layout is way too cramped and the card list is too narrow to see anything more than the first few characters of a card. The new design has one line with a simplified search control at the top of the screen, with a smaller number of fields to search on and all of them pop-up lists instead of text fields / date selectors; there's still an option in the field pop-up list to do an advanced search, though. Below that, most of the screen is taken up by a full-width list of cards, with just a one-line toolbar at the bottom of the screen giving you new / info / category / delete icons along with "More" and (on Palm) "Done" buttons.

So that's it, basically. This should be pretty much fully implemented in Beta 3, the goal for which in general is to have the interface in a near-final state and pretty much every significant feature implemented (or dropped / delayed to 2.1). Which is why it may not be out until a week or two before Christmas, but it'll be well worth the wait.
 

gato

状元
Would it still be possible to test a fixed number of cards (e.g. 50) of a certain rank (for example, rank 2 defined as having gotten correct 3 times in a row) as was possible in 1.0?
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Certainly; the settings are pretty much the same as before, except that now you're limiting it to a range of score values instead of a range of ranks.
 

gato

状元
Good. Thanks. I like being able to control the flashcards being studied instead of leaving it up to an algorithm. I think the space repetition algorithm works only if one follows a regular study schedule, and not if one studies only sporadically, for example, once a week or month.
 

koreth

榜眼
Yes, that's absolutely true; repetition spacing is kind of obnoxious if you take a break for even a few days. I try not to let myself do that anyway -- when I do, my scores inevitably drop quite a bit -- but if you do flashcard testing on a more occasional basis then repetition spacing is probably not very useful.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Yeah, I'm not big on repetition spacing either but some people really like the SuperMemo-esque approach. Still, done better than it is in 1.0 (with extra checks to avoid, say, having the same card come up twice in a 10-card sequence, something we've added in 2.0) I think frequency-adjusted review is really the ideal, it still makes sure you spend more time on the cards you need the most help with first but does it without forcing you to keep a strict review schedule.
 

JieFu

Member
Just a quick question/suggestion. You've probably addressed this elsewhere, but I just wanted to mention this one thing that I find a bit annoying. In the current version, I'm finding that I can't manage the flashcards very well. Occasionally I just want to go through and delete the ones I don't need or want to learn (or move them around), but I can't read the Chinese in the managing window (because I often haven't learned them yet, or I just know the pinyin). Sometimes I mistakenly add a word, or I add words that I later realize aren't useful. In the new version, will we be able to view the pinyin or English definitions in the managing window? Also, it would be nice if I could delete a card completely while doing a test.

By the way, when I had Pleco in the UK I didn't use it too much, as I did most reference work on my laptop. But since I moved to China a month ago I don't leave home without it. It's been fantastic! Thanks for everything! Can't wait for the new version.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Yes, we're making the Manage interface considerably nicer in Beta 3 - the list will be full-width and can include characters, Pinyin, and/or several other fields. And there's actually already a way to delete a card mid-session even now, you just have to add that button from the Display tab - haven't tested it much but it's in there and at least sort-of works.

And thanks! Glad you're finding it useful.
 
Hi,

I have not dared to upgrade yet since my Palm is mission critical and I have so many things. I regret not to have time to do Beta testing. I will take the plunge for Beta3 though. I was wondering why there was no comment (have i missed them) on the Uniligual Chinese dictionary and in particular for its use in creating Flashcards. Also, can it convert to full-form characters as in Pleco 1?

thank you

Henry :p
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
The Chinese-to-Chinese dictionary can be used to create flashcards, yes, but I wouldn't really recommend mixing cards from that dictionary and cards from other dictionaries, since particularly with multiple-choice testing it could get confusing or give away some of the answers.

As far as traditional character support, that's not available in the C-C dictionary in the the beta version but should be in the finished 2.0 - the original dictionary doesn't really include any support for traditional characters, so we have to add them ourselves. Which is true to some extent with all of our dictionaries, actually, though with the finished 2.0 version of the Oxford E&C we're incorporating data from the traditional character edition of that so those will be official, non-Pleco-generated traditional conversions.
 
Hi Mike,

Excellent. This sounds very promising. In the current version flashcards are "automatically" mixed since there does not seem to be a way to separate them. So I presume there will be a way to run flashcards and specify which flashcards can be run for testing one's knowledge.

I have told students about Pleco and they have been quite intrigued in my using my Palm but not really demonstrating it to them too avidly. I am waiting for Beta 3.0 to do that. I am very impressed by your Traditional conversion. Other much bigger operations have not really tried as much as you do. Pleco is so easy to use that I have stopped using my (expensive) Besta/好易通 unilingual 現代漢語辭典 that I sorely miss. (a maximum of 0.7 sec. to write a character once you lift up your pen is definitely not user-friendly and not useful to students).

It might be useful to post some screenshots of a flashcard with the Unilingual dictionary. Many advanced learners would be thrilled.

Thank you Mike

羅維文 :shock:
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
We're still trying to come up with a good interface for remapping flashcards in a session to a particular set of dictionaries, actually - unfortunately, given how far behind 2.0 is we may not be able to get it working well until a later release, but the data is all in there now that flashcard records include characters and Pinyin along with a dictionary entry reference, so it should be easy to add in 2.1 or 2.2.

And even in 2.0 it should be possible with a little extra effort; the Manage Flashcards screen would easily let you search for all cards based on C-C dictionary entries and add them to a special category which you could then base a flashcard session on, or if you wanted to put all of your cards in C-C the Manage screen should let you batch remap them to entries in that dictionary.

Glad you're finding our traditional conversion acceptable; we really wish there were better traditional-character dictionaries available, but since Far East refuses to even discuss a possible license with us and we're not sure yet if sales for the Standard Dictionary will be sufficient to justify trying to license a traditional-oriented C-C title, converting the dictionaries ourselves (mostly automated, with some hand tweaking for a few dozen common cases where there's one simplified character mapping to multiple traditional ones) is about the best we can do.

We're not really posting any new screenshots until Beta 3 is done since things are still kind of in flux at the moment, but we'll probably try doing so then.
 

taijidan

举人
Hi Mike,

2 features I'd like to request for the new flashcards.

1. I'd like to know how many cards I have in my bank.

As I use repetition spacing - I have a different number of cards to review each day (which is ok). But currently (Pleco 1.x) I have no idea how many cards in total, given that I have selected 30-50 stacks for review.

Ideally I would also like a report to say how many cards are at each rank.

2. When reviewing cards there is the (i) information icon which gives some information on the card, but does not tell you which Stack is is drawn from. It would be really useful to know which stack it came from. Two scenarios:

i. If I find there is a word I am forgetting a few times and is slipping down the ranks - I need to identify which stack it is in and from there I can know which chapter of my textbook it is from and can go back to revise the context.

ii. Sometimes a card gets added by mistake and I need to find out which stack it is in to delete it.


Thanks
Dan
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
1) This should be accomplished by the new "Statistics" screen once we get it working (in Beta 4 I think), though since we're doing away with Ranks it'll only be able to break down numbers of cards in certain score ranges.

2) The new Card Info screen in 2.0 lists all of the categories that a card belongs to; it's also now possible to delete a card from within a session without screwing the session up.
 
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