Beta 6 Bug Report / Feedback Thread

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
ipsi - some good news: we've now successfully managed to get native UTF-8 support working in the document reader, so with those at least there's no more long wait for files to open. (this only works with text files and not PalmDocs) We also added a check for Unicode byte order marks - if it finds one of those it overrides whatever encoding you specified and goes with the one from the BOM instead, so accidentally hitting UTF-16 when you wanted UTF-8 shouldn't be an issue as long as there's a BOM at the start of the file.

Definitely didn't release the debug version - if we had you'd know about it because the software would be incredibly incredibly slow whenever you tried to do anything SQL-related. (a minute plus to start a flashcard session, etc)

radioman - yes, you just choose "XML (External)" and the file should come up in the list, though at the moment thanks to that only-3-cards-in-a-file-list bug (we really should have released a Beta 6.5 two weeks ago after we fixed that) it may not.
 

tianli

举人
Have just installed (Palm T/X)...can I ask, my ABC is not linked and there is no audio. I stayed out of all the Betas till now (could not help myself) but it turns out now I cannot help myself ...any suggestions, although I suspect I have plenty else to play with in the meantime.

  • The ABC.pdb file is located in Palm/Launcher on the SD
    The dload does not appear to include the audio files and the link to the audio dload is broken.

Fixed the audio, found I had a beta5 dload on my PC, ...."Oh WOW!! Oh WOW!!" ... :D

Can I also express my gratitude to everyone that jumped in earlier and assisted Mike with his bug lists, the result is that I am having a terrific time playing with my father's day present. ....this is great, it looks so mature and the interface is not so unlike 1.0 but WOW!!, these new features.
 

caesartg

榜眼
Hi Mike

This thread's rather too long to check if any of these issues have already been brought up. I've just started seriously using the beta for study and I noticed a few minor HCI things I thought I'd mention. I'm using a Dell Axim X50V, by the way:

Suggest undo option in 'edit' pull-up menu
===================================
How about an 'undo' option in the 'edit' pull-up menu on the main screen for some functions? It wouldn't need to be active for hardly any functions but the particular function I'm thinking about is the 'Add to Flash' button, where it is useful to hold the button down to get the flashcard category list and put a dictionary entry straight into a particular category. The reason an 'undo' on this would be nice is that maybe 30% of the time I add a card in the course of doing other things in the system, it is either an accident (I clicked the wrong button) or I meant to add it to a specific category and maybe the pen slipped, I was inaccurate or the touch-screen didn't register perfectly. (The 'quick add to category' function is very very handy but easy to screw up). When this happens, I stop what I'm doing and open the flashcard system to get rid of the unwanted flashcard or to recategorise it properly, requiring quite a few clicks when it would be handy to have a simple 'undo' function to reverse it. This was actually something that I noticed would have been useful on the old (current) Pleco as well. At this moment, I can only think it would be useful for the 'Add to Flash' function, so maybe it could be ghosted/inactive until it can undo that.


Suggest 'Top' and 'bottom' move buttons in the Manage Categories screen
==============================================================
Tiny suggestion - you have the 'up' and 'down' buttons here for shifting categories about. On the old system, I had dozens of categories and used to spend a long time moving important new ones to the top by clicking repeatedly (and I remember there were non-fatal bugs in the GUI in how it did this). I've just been going through my pool of FCs and been creating new categories and noticed that there's this same issue. So how about two thin buttons on either side of the fat 'Up' or 'Down' buttons to send a category straight to the top? (maybe with a caret and reversed caret in it to keep it slender).


Carriage return in category naming quits the 'Manage Categories' screen
=============================================================
Tiny little thing I noticed. When in the 'manage categories' screen, naming or renaming a category using the keyboard and pressing the carriage return, the system doesn't simply name or rename the category, it also quits the 'manage categories' screen.


Another tiny point I was impressed you seemed to have considered - I accidentally named a category as '', which I think the system then called ' '. I thought for a minute, damn, how do I select this to rename it or delete it? But you maybe already considered that and I was able to select it using the navigation buttons rather than the stylus. Although, maybe it would be best to disallow a '' or space-only category. Maybe a default of 'no name' or 'New Category' would be best, similar to Windows File Explorer and most other explorers with folder/item creation functions.


I noticed some bugs but haven't yet tried to replicate. Will you be doing another beta? In which case, I would simply record the bugs I found and check if they still exist in the new beta, rather than read through a giant thread to see which have been reported.


All the best Mike

Ben
 
Couple points with the category management screens.

When importing, the new category is placed at the bottom of the list, but when adding new categories, they are added at the bottom of the "top". The first one seems to go to the top, then the next one below that, etc.

I'd prefer to always add at top (since it shows up on the very short "+" hold menu for selection.

Also, why is the "+" hold menu so small? Could we have more categories being shown? I've easily got 20+ already (past ones and current). I have four classes, and I keep each chapter in one or two lists, so the number of categories multiplies quickly.

Lastly, with Beta 6, the last category selected (add a card by hold and select) isn't carried over to the next one being added. At least, it doesn't appear that way. If I hold the "+" key for the second word, the top of the list is highlighted, not the previously selected one (in case I forgot which category).

Can we get the category name added to the "Card Added" message?

Unrelated: I suggest releasing beta 7 with known bugs, but don't tell us where they are, just a count. You could promise "fame and glory" to the person who first finds each of the ones you've already known about. This method has worked very effectively for me when managing teams of programmers over the last 20 years.
 

radioman

状元
I do not see "XML (External)" as an option. This is specific to the Palm Beta 6, and the option is not there as best as I can see. I do see three files that are presented but they are local (internal device) files. Am I missing something?

*** Side Note - on Windows Mobile, I am getting a number of challenges where I cannot quit and save a flashcard session. I exit and it does not "exit" me, then I exit again and it does and says "No flashcards available under that selection criteria" (I'm paraphrasing). Also, I can bring up sessions with no cards in them. The reason I think that happens is that I can launch multiple flashcard sessions simultaneously (is there a way to force Windows Mobile NOT to allow multiple flashcards sessions, where the same module is showing up in the task list more than once?

mikelove said:
radioman - yes, you just choose "XML (External)" and the file should come up in the list, though at the moment thanks to that only-3-cards-in-a-file-list bug (we really should have released a Beta 6.5 two weeks ago after we fixed that) it may not.
 

caesartg

榜眼
Probably dozens of people have already mentioned this but the 'Card C %' top field (selected in 'advanced settings' in flashcards) doesn't appear to calculate properly. I take it it's meant to give a running tally but when I got one wrong and one right, I saw 100% instead of 50%.


Update - in fact, more than just the 'card c%' doesn't work!
 

radioman

状元
*** OK - there was a space ". xml" should have been ".xml", operator error on my side.

radioman said:
I do not see "XML (External)" as an option. This is specific to the Palm Beta 6, and the option is not there as best as I can see. I do see three files that are presented but they are local (internal device) files. Am I missing something?

*** Side Note - on Windows Mobile, I am getting a number of challenges where I cannot quit and save a flashcard session. I exit and it does not "exit" me, then I exit again and it does and says "No flashcards available under that selection criteria" (I'm paraphrasing). Also, I can bring up sessions with no cards in them. The reason I think that happens is that I can launch multiple flashcard sessions simultaneously (is there a way to force Windows Mobile NOT to allow multiple flashcards sessions, where the same module is showing up in the task list more than once?

mikelove said:
radioman - yes, you just choose "XML (External)" and the file should come up in the list, though at the moment thanks to that only-3-cards-in-a-file-list bug (we really should have released a Beta 6.5 two weeks ago after we fixed that) it may not.
 

goog1e

举人
Incorrect Sounds (not sure if you are still collecting these for Beta 6 ...):

chan3sheng1 female
ying4pan2 female
di4zhi3 female

----
Flash Card Settings Changing:

I have found that if you start a Repetition-Spaced session and no cards come up, my Sketchbox setting "(taller)" becomes unchecked. My steps to reproduce:

Go to the flash card screen and choose "Advanced Settings", switch to "Spaced Repetition" and then go to the "Modes" tab and enable the sketch box along with the "(taller)" option.

Now say okay and start a flashcard session (doesn't matter if self-scored or review, not sure about others), and choose a category combination that brings up no repetitions today.

Observe the error message that says something like "no flashcards found".

Go back to the first flashcard screen and go back into "Advanced Settings" -> "Modes" and you'll find that the "(taller)" option has been unchecked.


----

Got a bug earlier where in a "Review only" session, when I highlighted and tapped a character, the only menu items I got were "Magnify" and "Copy". When I went to reproduce it for posting here, it was back to the full menu.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
tianli - Glad to hear you're liking it so far. It looks like we accidentally deleted the audio when we were cleaning out some old Beta 5 files... sorry about that, but at this point I wouldn't suggest downloading it anyway since it's getting completely replaced in Beta 7 (and the old files won't work due to a format change). When you say the ABC is "not linked," do you mean it's not coming up in Pleco? If so, try putting it in a different directory, say /Palm/Programs/Pleco - there may be a conflict between the 1.0 version of ABC and the 2.0 one. (we're changing the filenames in B7 so that there won't be any more overlap)

gato - we moved Char Info to a taphold menu, but if you highlight a character and tap-hold on it (after the card is revealed) you can get Char Info that way.

caesartg - interesting thought about flashcards, but I think we'd be better off giving that its own command - a "Delete last flashcard" or somesuch. (this could easily check to make sure that card was created in the current dictionary session and not as part of an import etc) If we did an actual Undo we'd really want it to apply to everything, otherwise it would cause too much confusion. Alternatively we could look at adding a screen that quickly pops up a list of the last, say, 50 flashcards added so you can easily delete them (or put them into additional categories) without having to fiddle around with the Manage Flashcards screen. Both possibilities for 2.1 anyway.

We actually did put in a way to easily move categories around the Manage Categories screen - just use the Move button. Highlight the category you want to move, tap Move, then tap on another category and it'll insert it right below it. Of course you'd then need one extra button tap to move it to the very top of the list, but in general I prefer it to fixed top/bottom buttons since it provides a lot more flexibility. We'll take a look at this return bug. The whitespace category handling actually wasn't deliberate, it looks like that's just built in to the Windows tree control (one of the few built-in operating system user interface elements that actually works well), but you're right that we should disallow those - doing that with imports would be really tricky, so we probably won't, but we can at least check to see if the input for a new category name includes only whitespace and disallow renaming it if so.

And yes, we are doing another beta (and probably one more after that, too) but please do let us know if the bugs are still around after that.

stephanhodges - categories should be added below whichever category is currently highlighted, actually, so if you highlight the topmost category in the list they'll go on top. The + menu is only small on Palm and for various reasons it's really tricky to make it bigger - the same menu controls get recycled for all of the other items in that toolbar. And it always uses whatever the default category is (as configured in the Manage Categories screen) - we debated having it dynamically change when you select something new from the menu, but we were worried people might forget they'd set it to something different and end up with a lot of cards in a category they didn't want them to be in. Good idea about putting the category name in the card added message, but it'll have to wait for something post-2.0.

Beta 7 actually hasn't been held up by our desire to kill every last bug, it's been held up by some new data files we're releasing with it (the full set of audio was ready a week ago but there were some others we still needed to do) - we realized those might reveal some new bugs so we wanted to make sure we had at least a beta or two with them included (rather than finalizing or nearly-finalizing the software and then getting them ready). Though in hindsight we should have released something with a few obvious bug fixes earlier just for the sake of making the software more usable for everyone.

radioman - glad you managed to work out the XML issue. We went in and heavily overhauled the window management system on WM for Beta 7, so now it should no longer be possible to have two flashcard (or any other kind of) sessions at the same time - you'll also be returned to the screen that you were last in if you reopen the software, rather than always being dumped back to the main window.

caesartg - that's actually the % correct for the current card, not for the session as a whole, though I suppose there ought to be an option for that too. (all of those "Card ..." things are for the current card)

goog1e - looks like we'd fixed the first two of those audio issues but not the third, thanks for the note on that. (and please everyone keep submitting those corrections even after B7 is out, they really help a lot) Interesting details on the flashcard settings not saving, we've been trying to figure out why that happens for some people - hopefully this will prove reproducible here. Review Only was a bit buggy in general in B6, not hiding fields and such - should be a lot better in B7.
 

gato

状元
gato - we moved Char Info to a taphold menu, but if you highlight a character and tap-hold on it (after the card is revealed) you can get Char Info that way.
I got it working after changing "Tap-hold action" to "Char Info" under Preferences->Stylus Actions. Is it possible to allow "Char Info" and "Pop Definition" to mapped to hardware buttons in flashcard mode? I usually use the flashcards when I'm riding the subway and would prefer not to have to use the stylus. I can still single tap a character or select a phrase relatively accurately with a finger. But tap and hold doesn't seem to be possible when using one's fingertips instead of the stylus.
 

ldolse

状元
Found a new way to hang the whole phone. Have someone call you while you're in the middle of a flashcard session. Specifically I was in the middle of a multiple choice session, and someone called me. When I attempted to pick up the call the whole phone hung, requiring a soft-reset. Not sure if it's related, but I have it set so the headword is displayed, you select Pinyin from a list, then you select the meaning and confirm it. I don't remember for sure but it the call may have came in halfway through answering a question.

A bit of feedback on the multiple choice - when answering Pinyin and Def I often fat finger the Pinyin answer, instantly causing a wrong answer. However it's impossible to fat-finger the definition since it asks you to confirm. I think I'd prefer it if neither the Pinyin answer or the definition answer was checked until the final confirmation. I realize this would facilitate guessing in a few instances, but multiple choice facilitates guessing anyway, and it would eliminate the fat fingering problem.
 

FUmminger

秀才
It's probably way too late for this, but I think the flashcard UI would be improved a great deal by simply switching the following buttons around:
New Flashcard Sesson becomes Start Session
Start Session becomes Advanced...
Advanced... becomes New Flashcard Session
And New Flashcard Session should probably be renamed to something like Flashcard Session Settings.

The reason for swapping the buttons is that, when using flashcards, one usually just wants to start a session (and maybe choose a profile first). It is easier and quicker to do this if the Start Session button is immediately available. Also, it prevents one from accidentally messing up settings in New Flashcard Session while trying to start a session.

Occasionally, one wants to change the settings. So New Flashcard Session should also be immediately available, but in a smaller button size.

Only rarely, maybe never, does one want to change the Advanced... settings. That is why they are Advanced! So they can be more difficult to access. Also, it makes sense to group them inside the New Flashcard Settings dialog; they are logically part of the settings, just a less frequently used part. This is kind of like the Expert Mode that is available in some software, available, but hidden away behind an extra button click, where it won't get in the way of or confuse non-experts.

For myself, I use Start Session one to four times a day. I use New Flashcard settings about once or twice a weak to add a new category to the flashcards. I used Advanced... once. The current button arrangement is not well-mapped to that kind of usage pattern.

-Frederick
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
gato - after repeatedly saying we wouldn't, we actually did end up bringing the whole Stylus Actions stack over to the flashcard review session screen, so in Beta 7 you'll be able to go back to tapping on characters to get character info again.

ldolse - interesting; might be related to the other bug you mentioned with stroke order skipping strokes when a new notification comes in, actually. The multiple choice interface we're really not happy with at all but we're sticking with it as is for 2.0 - likely candidate for redesign in a later release, though.

FUmminger - interesting suggestion, but I think for a lot of people's usage patterns it's actually helpful to have those frequently-picked options right there at the start of a session; people don't always feel like reviewing the same number of cards, and might also like to flip between categories without setting up a separate profile for each category set, so having those options there right at the start of every session is helpful in that case. I'm also a little worried about confusing new users - putting those options right in front of you when you start a session (which you do through a nice big friendly button) makes it very obvious how you go about changing them, while sticking them in a separate screen makes it much less so. Of course it does work that way in 1.0 with everything except the category selection, but I've never been happy with that Card/Test Settings interface and I think this new one makes the system a lot more accessible to people who haven't used Pleco flashcards before.
 

ipsi

状元
Mike: Good to hear about those two bits. I'm not sure if I'll be able to get BOMs on Linux, but I suspect that will be good news for a lot of other people :). I assume that once you've got XHTML up and running it will use the encoding declaration (if present) in the file instead?

Had one more of those resets on starting Pleco - worth mentioning that I had pTunes running, and had previously (some hours before) gone and entered/exited Pleco repeatedly. Maybe a dozen or so times, maybe more. No problems at the time, but I guess that could have been part of the cause?
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Yes, the XHTML reader should be able to convert GB/B5/UTF-8 depending on the declaration, though of course with UTF-16 it can't even find that declaration until it figures out it's in UTF-16 (which we proabably should check for in the absence of BOMs by the telltale huge-number-of-null-bytes).

The reset might be out-of-memory or might be a heap corruption bug, let me know if they're still happening regularly with B7 and we'll try hammering away with pTunes specifically some more.
 

ipsi

状元
Good to hear. :)

Also, I see in the Beta 7 thread you mention that the Wiseman TCM dictionary is in TeX - did they not even have the decency to use LaTeX? I guess this means that on top of trying to convert it you're wading through an ungodly pile of custom macros?

EDIT: One downside for me with your new "Betas out of nowhere!" policy is that I have to wait until I get home to install, rather than using my work's connection to grab/install it (No SD Card Reader at work).
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
CTeX, so a little less crazy - in general that's actually much better than most of the data files we deal with (which are in Founder and utter gibberish, but do at least make extracting text / separating it from metadata pretty easy even if the formatting's a mess), so it's more a matter of us not having a process in place to deal with heavily interlinked files like TeXes than of the files themselves being in bad shape.

(while I'm on the subject I should say that Wenlin wins the all-time super-gold-star award for data file quality, the ABC files are in a beautiful, clean, electronic-dictionary-friendly format and are utterly immaculate in general)

And yeah, sorry about the sudden releases, but it seems better to do it this way than to have 30 people eagerly lurking in the forums one evening only to have me emerge at the end of several hours to say the beta won't be ready for another day or two.
 

ipsi

状元
Ahh yeah. Fair enough. Haven't used CTeX before, just LaTeX (and then not for a while, now that I've stopped doing math-related stuff).

Did a quick Google on Foundry, but didn't see anything. I assume it's some sort of proprietary format for publishing books?
 
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