Outlier Dictionary of Chinese Characters
- Thread starter mikelove
- Start date
John Renfroe
进士
Are we also waiting for an app update?
Harionago
Member
I had one the other day
There's a minor Android one with a few Outlier-related bug fixes that's in beta channel now and will probably start rolling out to non-beta users today - that might be the one that @Harionago downloaded.
But we've basically done this within our existing database format - there'll be more app changes to accommodate this as they continue expanding the dictionary, but we wanted to make sure that a) users of old devices that weren't old devices when they backed the Kickstarter can still get the dictionary (system requirements are going to go up a lot in Pleco 4.0), and that b) we wouldn't be introducing any delay on our end due to App Review or whatever. (and also that c) we didn't waste a lot of time implementing things that they eventually decided not to do / to do very differently as the dictionary developed)
But we've basically done this within our existing database format - there'll be more app changes to accommodate this as they continue expanding the dictionary, but we wanted to make sure that a) users of old devices that weren't old devices when they backed the Kickstarter can still get the dictionary (system requirements are going to go up a lot in Pleco 4.0), and that b) we wouldn't be introducing any delay on our end due to App Review or whatever. (and also that c) we didn't waste a lot of time implementing things that they eventually decided not to do / to do very differently as the dictionary developed)
Will iOS see an update as well?
joeymac1981
Member
Sorry , I'm going to be that guy who asks for an update. Are there still bugs you are working through? Also, are the bugs for both platforms or just Android. If the latter is the case, then would it be possible to release iOS now and then Android once they are fixed.
...Otherwise, 加油!!
DaveIRL
Member
Outlier has released the Mini Edition v1.0.
Will it be possible to use the Outlier Mini Edition on more than one device? I activated it on my iPhone but on my iPad and iPad Pro I'm asked to pay for it. The activation code sent by Outlier apparently can be used with only one Registration ID, and my devices have different IDs. Should I change them to the ID of my iPhone?
I'm so happy to finally get my hands on this! I've only been waiting a few months - I can't imagine the wait for the original backers.
Where should we discuss the content of the dictionary? Here?
I am wondering about one thing I found already. The entry for the simplified character 国 (guó) shows 玉 (yù) as a sound component. This would make sense for the traditional version of the character 國 (guó) with the inside part being 或 (huò). Is 玉 really a sound component in the simplified character 国?
Where should we discuss the content of the dictionary? Here?
I am wondering about one thing I found already. The entry for the simplified character 国 (guó) shows 玉 (yù) as a sound component. This would make sense for the traditional version of the character 國 (guó) with the inside part being 或 (huò). Is 玉 really a sound component in the simplified character 国?
John Renfroe
进士
We're thinking about putting up a discussion page on Facebook. Would that be of interest?
Re: 玉 being a sound component in 国
Keep in mind that these sound components weren't made for Mandarin. They were made for much older versions of the language (国 has existed for a long time—it's attested in the Dunhuang Manuscripts).
In Cantonese, you can still somewhat see a connection:
國 gwok-
玉 yuhk-
或 waahk-
In Middle Chinese it's even clearer:
玉 ngjowk
或 hwok
國 gwok
Even here though, 玉 is not a perfect sound component, but the initials are all pronounced in the same part of the mouth (i.e., they are homorganic), the endings (-k) are the same and the main vowels are close (-ow- vs. -o-).
Re: 玉 being a sound component in 国
Keep in mind that these sound components weren't made for Mandarin. They were made for much older versions of the language (国 has existed for a long time—it's attested in the Dunhuang Manuscripts).
In Cantonese, you can still somewhat see a connection:
國 gwok-
玉 yuhk-
或 waahk-
In Middle Chinese it's even clearer:
玉 ngjowk
或 hwok
國 gwok
Even here though, 玉 is not a perfect sound component, but the initials are all pronounced in the same part of the mouth (i.e., they are homorganic), the endings (-k) are the same and the main vowels are close (-ow- vs. -o-).
John,
I would participate in a Facebook discussion page. Do you prefer regular bug reports in an open forum where many people can see them, or collected at bugs@outlier-linguistics.com, even though there may be duplicates?
That is an amazing explanation Re: 国. Thanks! Very interesting! I would be overjoyed to have that level of detail in the future Expert entries, calling back to Middle Chinese, etc when it enlightens.
I would participate in a Facebook discussion page. Do you prefer regular bug reports in an open forum where many people can see them, or collected at bugs@outlier-linguistics.com, even though there may be duplicates?
That is an amazing explanation Re: 国. Thanks! Very interesting! I would be overjoyed to have that level of detail in the future Expert entries, calling back to Middle Chinese, etc when it enlightens.
John Renfroe
进士
For bug reports, we'd prefer you to send them to bugs@outlier-linguistics.com so we can keep the public discussion focused on the content and usage of the dictionary rather than technical details.
That's exactly the type of info that will be in the Expert entries! Check out the entries for 美, 尚, 變, etc. (ie., the entries from the demo) for more examples of Expert entries.
That's exactly the type of info that will be in the Expert entries! Check out the entries for 美, 尚, 變, etc. (ie., the entries from the demo) for more examples of Expert entries.
I really like the entry for 尚 
I just came upon it in Skritter a few minutes ago. For every character that comes up in Skritter, now I check if there is an Outlier entry. So far it is pretty easy because I moved the OTC Outlier dictionary to the top of the dictionary list.
I wish I could jump to Pleco in one tap from Skritter instead of two.
I just came upon it in Skritter a few minutes ago. For every character that comes up in Skritter, now I check if there is an Outlier entry. So far it is pretty easy because I moved the OTC Outlier dictionary to the top of the dictionary list.
I wish I could jump to Pleco in one tap from Skritter instead of two.
John Renfroe
进士
John Renfroe
进士
Another interesting thing along those lines:
Even though the form of 有 is the same in simplified and traditional Chinese, our analysis is different.
有 was originally a hand (又; now ) holding a piece of meat (肉; now 月).
The ROC standard differentiates between 月 (moon) and ⺼ (meat; a component version of 肉). Those are two different components, with two different origins. That is, 月 cannot mean "meat" in the ROC standard. So in our analysis, 月 is an empty component in this character in traditional Chinese, because in order for it to be a semantic component it would have to be written ⺼.
The PRC standard writes both components as 月. It's one component with two different origins. That is, 月 can mean either "moon" or "meat" in the PRC standard. So in our analysis, 月 is a semantic component in this character in simplified Chinese.
The Chinese writing system is complex, but that's part of what we love about it.
Even though the form of 有 is the same in simplified and traditional Chinese, our analysis is different.
有 was originally a hand (又; now ) holding a piece of meat (肉; now 月).
The ROC standard differentiates between 月 (moon) and ⺼ (meat; a component version of 肉). Those are two different components, with two different origins. That is, 月 cannot mean "meat" in the ROC standard. So in our analysis, 月 is an empty component in this character in traditional Chinese, because in order for it to be a semantic component it would have to be written ⺼.
The PRC standard writes both components as 月. It's one component with two different origins. That is, 月 can mean either "moon" or "meat" in the PRC standard. So in our analysis, 月 is a semantic component in this character in simplified Chinese.
The Chinese writing system is complex, but that's part of what we love about it.