Beta 6 Bug Report / Feedback Thread

ldolse

状元
One other bit of feedback - Unihan.

I like the fact that you can now search the Unihan database like a regular dictionary - but I really hate the fact that you have to look up a rare character to get it to magically appear. I think it should be available just like any other dictionary. If you want it semi-hidden by default I think that's ok, but a better way to do it would be to put it in the Manage Dicts window, with default settings so that it won't display anywhere. That way a power user could choose to fully enable it.

It should also be available as a dictionary option to be used during a flashcard import. For single characters I'd prefer it over Adso.

I do like the way that you cleaned up the entries for this interface to it to just be pinyin and definition, much nicer.
 
I think this whole database mover thing is pretty complicated. I read the ReadMe, but I still don't get it. Its not a major problem, but I think my flashcards are on my SD card right now, BUT when I look in the Mover Utility, nothing populates list when Move from: ...(Card) is selected.

Also, I forgot to mention that in a flash card session, my up/down buttons don't do anything. I would like for them to scroll through the definition when it doesn't fit on the screen.
 

weight

举人
Hi Mike,

1. Sorry to be pushy about the zhuyin, but...

The zhuyin first tone doesn't get a dot "˙" or any other "punctuation." This dot "˙" is supposed to represent the pinyin 5th/neutral tone.

For instance "開" should be represented as "ㄎㄞ" no dots. While 阿 (pinyin 5/neutral tone) would be represented as "ㄚ˙"

2. I'm getting some resets when I do the following:
Edit a a card that has a custom entry, immediately press the custom tab (which is already highlighted by default). It doesn't happen all the time, but oddly it seems to have something to do with punctuation? Longish custom cards with any kind of punctuation in the headword or the definition seem to do it.

3. Is there some way to assign skip card to a hardware button?
 
Palm, Tapcis

I didn't have much time today for dedicated testing.

Reader questions and issues.

I could not get Pleco to search /Palm/Docs/ on my external card for txt files. Which path configuration controls where it searches for each of the file types?

I copied http://china.panlogicsoftware.com/books/great/HLM.txt into /Palm/Launcher and it could see it when I selected "text" files.

Issues:

1) The left right buttons don't advance (on Tapcis), although the up down buttons work. The joystick controller does both up down and left right. Any way to configure these keys?

2) The 4th word doesn't automatically look up, although it looks up (on bottom panel) if you manually click it.

3) Some words / phrases are only in the ADSO dictionary, so it automatically switches (end of first line, for example) to the ADSO dictionary. BUT, all remaining words are looked up (first) using that dictionary!! I really don't like this default behavior. I think it should stick with anything manually selected as "first" choice, otherwise cycle through them in the defined search order. So, it should (in my case) return to ABC for the next word!, unless I manually click it to "set" it to whatever...
 

grabolus

举人
Hi,

Beta6 is much more stable on my Treo 650. The Stroke Order screen is now working nice.
I had a soft reset during Instant access from a memo. I didn't use it much and I must admit I don't really know how instant access should work in general.
I had a soft reset during the config of the flashcard buttons.

In general it runs nice, thanks.
 

dom

秀才
Tungsten T3 with CJKOS installed and a 1 GB external card. I had some problems with Pleco2 not being able to see my files on my external card. Here's what happened, more or less:

- installed Pleco2 and HWR onto internal memory
- copied all other files (using a card reader) to my SD card, including font files (size 22,28,48,96) and dictionary files, to /PALM/Launcher
- Pleco2 opened with only the tiniest font, and only saw the ABC dictionary.
- I try fiddling with/turning off extraneous paths in prefs -> search paths, to no avail

so then, I tried the following:
- re-installed font and dictionary files by syncing (ended up in /PALM/Launcher)
- Pleco2 now complains that it can't find any font files and offers to reset my prefs
- resetting prefs doesn't help

So then I used FileZ to move the font files (sizes 22 and 28) to the internal memory, and whereas before only the ABC dictionary was showing, now the NWP (paid) and CN21 and Guifan (demo) show up as well, much to my relief. So I don't know what's up with that.

One remaining issue: I'm almost ready to use Pleco2 all the time and get rid of Pleco1, but I have various user dictionaries that I compiled with MakePlecoDict (using a friend's PC, since there's no mac version) which I would very much like to continue using. Is MakePlecoDict for Pleco2 ready? I am also perfectly happy to roll my own files--I remember Pleco2 would support sqlite files as add-on dictionaries, is that still true?
 

sfrrr

状元
I deleted the two PD B5 folders I had on my iPAQ. Couldn't find any other PD files, but I must have left one somewhere because after installation, I discovered that I still had all my categories and my customized toolbar. What is this file that I missed called? I didn't do a whole device search for PD files--bad me.

Also, quite a few times when I was in the Settings/Preferences/whatever menu, when I clicked the OK button, it closed down the whole program instead of returning me to the prefrences screen.

Oh, @#$W#$--have to go. More later.

Sandra
 

ldolse

状元
@Dom, MakePlecoDict details are in the second page of this thread - anyway, you'll need to wait a bit longer for that one. I'm looking forward to it too.

@sfrr, I suspect those crashes are from the preferences being left over from the previous beta. They're in the registry in Windows Mobile, that's why you couldn't find them. You need a registry editor to manually delete the old prefs, but did you try resetting prefs under Preferences->Misc? The categories are part of your flashcard file, so unless you delete your flashcards those won't go away.
 

kkuguru

秀才
Mike,

Not sure if this is a bug or my misuse of the search feature, but for example if I want type in pinyin JiaHua, the first search results I get are JiaHuan - I get 4 entries of JiaHuan before I get to my first entry of JiaHua. This same type of searching sometime misleads me to think that the word I'm looking for is not in the dictionary, when in fact I just have to scroll down a few entries to find it. Shouldn't the JiaHua entries come up before any entries like JiaHuan or JiaHuai etc...?
 

sych

榜眼
One other question...

I'm upgrading from B5 to B6. Install.txt says:

If upgrading from a previous beta, please delete all files from that beta before installing this new one.

Does that mean I should export my flashcard and user dictionaries from B5, then re-import into B6?

EDIT: sorry, I meant to put this into the "How to install the beta" thread, but put it here by mistake
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Hoo, lot of feedback today - thanks all.

ipsi - no chance for "bookmark selected line" in Beta 7, though we may be dropping the modification date check (along with switching to just filenames) since it does seem like some systems change the modification date when you move the file - as long as the file's the same size it's unlikely the bookmarks would be invalid. Of course the ideal would be some sort of system that went by paragraphs / section names or somesuch rather than byte positions, but that's not feasible on any PDA yet. We'll hammer away with memory-eating background tasks and see what we can find, though it may be that there just isn't enough memory on a typical Palm for Pleco to coexist comfortably with more than a couple of background applications.

weight - we've gotten a few reports of problems with the converter utility like this, but we haven't yet been able to reproduce them here; at some point we may just give up and at least initially tell people that if they encounter a crash they can send us the file and we'll export it for them, though hopefully we'll figure this out before 2.0's released. The reset on exit looks like a bug too... does it make any difference if you export to an SD card instead of to internal memory? The whole thing's really perplexing since most of the code in that converter utility is taken directly from the 1.0 exporter (which doesn't seem to give people the same problems). If putting the file on an SD card instead of internal memory doesn't help, send us your flashcard files and we'll export them for you (and see if we can reproduce the problem on a TX here using your files).

Fleminator - I'm seeing #1 too now - definitely a recent development, must have been from one of the changes we made to improve tap/tap-sel accuracy. #2 is probably happening because of the new system we use to cache profile/scorefile names (so they're not as maddeningly slow as they were in Beta 5) - does the list still populate slowly or is it faster now than it was in Beta 5? #3a yes, deleting a scorefile will never affect any profiles linked to it - we probably should put the name of the thing you're about to delete in the confirmation box, actually, just to make situations like that a bit less nerve-wracking. #3b are you using frequency-adjusted or repetition-spaced lately? On #4 a quick Google search brings up 8.4 million results for "flashcards" and 8.3 million for "flash cards", so if it's a spelling mistake it's an awfully popular one.

#5 we've actually been working on all weekend - it's still not perfect, but the mistakes tend to be concentrated in a few areas (and a lot of them were actually created by bugs in the encoder program rather than in the original audio files) and we think we've found most of them now; if people keep reporting lots of problems once we've released the revised set of files we might try to organize some sort of audio-specific testing thing here on the forums. (everyone gets a thousand words or so in the form of a flashcard list, maybe, if we can convince people to do it)

#6 we'd love to do but even if the UI part of it is easy it's tricky to implement on the back end (much harder than in New Session due to the different way the queries are structured) so that might have to wait for 2.1. #7 we thought we'd fixed, we'll take another look but that's definitely in the category of things-that-can-wait-for-2.0.1 at this point. #8 here's something that might work: search for all flashcards with dictionary == your user dict, export them to XML (with user dict definitions included - use the Export button in More Options to export a list of search results), delete the cards, delete your user dictionary file, then import that exported file back into Pleco with definitions being stored in the user dictionary - that should bring back just the flashcard-linked user dict entries and no others.

#9 it sounds like it couldn't access the flashcard file from wherever it was accessing it before. Go into FileZ, Preferences, and make sure the "Show Hidden Volumes" option is checked, then tap the Close button and View and Edit Files again and you should see your hidden internal volume listed as the second item - if you open that up, is there another flashcards file in there? If so, send me that file and we can check to see if it was corrupted (which would be very bad) or accidentally still marked as "in use" (not so bad). If there's no other file in there, it might have been accessing it from the SD card before too - go into Preferences, Search Paths - what storage location is selected in the list at the bottom of the screen? PlecoMover as ipsi suggests would let you easily move around the files, but if the file's getting corrupted if it's in internal memory and the palm resets that's definitely something we'd need to investigate.

#10 I'm seeing here too, guess our fix for that problem only worked with All. #11 I'm not sure about - with truly colossal numbers of flashcard categories (say 200 or more, which we've definitely seen in some people's files) even on the Advanced screen you probably wouldn't want to see them all. We're still tracking down a few glitches like #12, there are a couple on Pocket PC too. #13 the data comes from the UniHan database and ranks cards from 1-5 (1 being highest-frequency, 5 being lowest) - I believe they originally generated it based on USENET postings. At some point we really need to get some more nuanced frequency data in there so we can use that to do things like sort search results...

ldolse - it shouldn't be hanging the whole PDA, that's true, I just wanted to eliminate the possibility that it was a bug involving corrupted data - my best theory now is that it's some sort of a software conflict. What firmware / ROM version are you running on your Touch Dual? We only have a regular Touch here but maybe we can reproduce it on that - and if I haven't asked you this lately, what third-party software (if any) do you have running in the background / as a system extension at the same time as Pleco?

Thanks for the reminder on the stroke order issue. With the large entry copy, how did you manage to copy out more than one page of text? Using the hardware scroll buttons? The reader issue sounds like we just need to check for an open reader window / not open another one if it's there, something we probably should have been doing several betas ago. We'll check on this ZTA4 bug, I think we've already got it installed on something else anyway. I'm not sure if integrating a popup definition screen into the user dictionary editor would make sense, but maybe at least some sort of simple character-to-Pinyin converter (with popup lists in the case of multiple pinyin variants).

Full-text indeed doesn't work with single-character searches - there'd be too many results for too many characters, though maybe something we could look at for a post-Palm release. Good point on the pound sign, not really any reason to leave it in in those cases since full-text always autodetects the search language anyway. You can actually delete it just by tapping on the full-text toggle button again, though I agree it probably should work on a highlight-and-clear too.

The dictionary switch bug in Edit Card has been noted elsewhere - the 'sou' icon exists because at the moment that screen doesn't auto-update when you change the search term and hence there needs to be some way you can try a different search in the same dictionary. Reveal fields separately was mentioned somewhere before, I think, though we have it marked as not-reproducible so we'd better take another crack at it. Skip Duplicates can't determine whether or not something is a duplicate until you select it from that list, since it's possible for example to have a single character with several different Pinyin transliteraitons (in which case it wouldn't be a duplicate if you picked a different one from the one in the existing card) - do those different entries have the exact same headword/pinyin or do they vary in some way?

Manage Cards already can sort alphabetically by Pinyin, just choose "pron" "ascending" in the "Sort By" section of the Settings screen. Making Guifan less prominent I'm not sure about - if an entry isn't in ABC then it isn't in Oxford either in which case it's either going to be in Guifan or nowhere (unless you're using Adso in which case you'd already want to customize that list to put it somewhere higher than fourth) and it's better to have an entry from a Chinese-Chinese dictionary than from none at all. Imports already can be canceled, just tap on the "Stop" button (which Start changes to after you tap on it). With the word wrapping issue, by any chance does a scrollbar appear in the definition after you've revealed it? Assuming there's a space between the ] and the x it should break on that space regardless, so the best reason I can think of why it wouln't would be if it didn't have enough space to fit that last bracket on the first line, which could certainly happen if a scrollbar appears once the entry is revealed (causing the text area to shrink).

Good point on exiting sessions. A "fix later" checkbox seems a bit too specific - seems like it would be easier to just create a "Fix Later" category, put it at the top of your flashcard list, and then toggle it by tapping-holding on the category button. It may be a problem a lot of people have but I hate to add yet another confusing checkbox when just creating a category isn't really any more cumbersome. Double-clicking / pressing the center button to bring up Card Info are both good ideas but definitely in the "maybe" pile for 2.0. Popup definition already should work once the card is revealed - just select and then tap-hold on the word you want to look up to pop up a menu that includes that and several other options.

I'm not seeing much of a problem with English font sizes in the entry list - any chance the characters might just look small because you're used to seeing them magnified? Good point on the history list. Adding "send to reader" to the context menu I'm a bit unsure about, because it seems like that would be for sending the currently-highlighted text to the reader than the whole entry (which I guess would be useful in its own way but less so than sending the whole entry and hampered somewhat by how difficult it is to highlight multiple pages of text).

There are actually two different kinds of superscripts in Guifan, the regular non-circled ones are for multiple entries with the same headword (and indeed probably should show up with TC as well as SC headwords) while the circled ones only appear in single-character entries and are for pointing out which definitions a particular character variant applies to (for those pesky one-simplified-but-several-traditional-character words).

ipsi again - good point on moving Send to Reader, probably makes sense to move Play Audio too - as I recall there used to be a lot more options under Dict and those ones were put under Edit originally due to lack of space for them elsewhere.

ldolse again - yeah, we went halfway on Unihan-as-a-dict and should probably just finish the job and make it a full-fledged dictionary along with the others; as long as it's not accessible by just tapping on the cycle dict button it shouldn't confuse anyone too much. (and just using it as a fallback is already going to get us a bunch of "what's this darn UNI icon" e-mails)

Fleminator again - yeah, PlecoMover is really as much for our benefit as anything - makes it a lot easier to walk users through moving around / backing up databases. PlecoMover only sees databases in the root level (/) of an SD card, so make sure your flashcard file is there and not in a subdirectory. Good point about up/down scroll, it should at the very least be available along with the other options on the flashcard button settings screen.

weight again - looks like we created another zhuyin bug in the course of fixing that earlier one you mentioned - dots were supposed to be appearing after neutral tones instead of first tones. And don't worry about being pushy, I have almost no experience with Zhuyin myself so if someone doesn't point out these problems they're probably going to go unfixed. We'll take a look at this edit card issue. Remove Card should be assignable as a hardware button, not sure why it's not showing up in preferences...

stephanhodges - the reader searches for files in the same directories as the rest of pleco, so you'd configure that in the Search Paths section of Preferences. We'll check on this left/right issue on our Tapwave unit here. What do you mean by "the 4th word"? Good point on Adso, particularly since some people may want to put Guifan in the reader as a fallback it makes sense to not switch dictionaries unless they ask it to. (though I'm sure making this change will result in calls from others to either change it back or provide a way to have a different dictionary search order for the reader than for the main dictionary, like there already is for flashcard imports - all in 2.1, folks)

grabolous - glad to hear it's more stable. Did the soft reset happen when you were configuring the flashcard buttons in Preferences or in the Display tab of the Advanced Settings screen?

dom - that's weird... have you had any problems with this memory card before? Any chance the files might not have copied completely, say if the memory card accidentally came loose? How many other files are there in /Palm/Launcher? Any files from a previous beta? MakePlecoDict won't be out until after 2.0, can't justify holding up the main product to finish it, but you can actually create pretty good-sized user dictionaries using the flashcard importer now - unlike the old created-on-device dictionaries these are sorted and generally quite stable / reliable. (and do indeed use SQLite) MakePlecoDict is going to use essentially the same format, actually.

sfrrr - resetting the preferences per ldolse's suggestion should help, yes. The OK button issue sounds like the return of the old button-turning-into-an-X issue from 1.0, hopefully we can find / fix it once again.

kkuguru - are you sure you mean "jiahua"? I'm not seeing any entries for "jiahuan" in anything except Adso, and then only as part of longer words.

sych - no need to do this for Beta 6, actually, the formats remain the same.
 

ipsi

状元
I would prefer it if the modification time could be dropped and if you just compare the size instead. Although that could cause problems if someone swaps a 2-byte codepoint and a 3-byte codepoint - file length is the same, but you now have all sorts of interesting issues arising from the fact that you should actually be starting 1 byte later than expected...

Good luck with those memory-related issues... Yeah, it is possible, though I would have thought that if it could start do a task once, it could do a task repeatedly, assuming no memory leaks (if each successive task requires more memory though, that could be a problem).

Here's some minor aesthetic issues I'd like to see changed:

Remove the border on the HWR palette when it's in full-screen mode. Remove the eraser button, "bi3" button, just leaving the on/off button, and have it hide behind the list menu, not in front of it. i.e. exactly like 1.0 :D.

Remove the down button in the reader when the end of the file is reached. Not sure if it's possible to tell that easily or not though.

Undo button in the Flashcard Sketch box! That's possibly one of the most frustrating things about it at the moment. For me, anyway.

If possible, a clear clipboard option would be nice, so that if I copy some text into Pleco it doesn't keep on opening the document reader every time I start Pleco...

Minor Bug with Document Reader:

If I send more than about a page's worth of text to it (see 1jia1 in the ABC or Oxford dicts), I can press down once, which will take me to almost the end, and shows (for ABC) 93.43%. Thing is though, despite there being only a single line of text on screen, I can hit down again (taking it to 99.74%), and then when I hit the up button it will display everything up to the second line, and I have to hit up again to get the first line. Very strange.

I think this may actually happen when you hit the end of any text - you can scroll down another once or so, which then throws it off for scrolling back up.
 

ldolse

状元
Regarding the audio crash, my PDA Settings:
  • Default Touch Dual WWE ROM
  • WinMo version is CE OS 5.2.1622 (Build 18128.0.4.4)
  • The version number for the ROM itself is 1.31.456.09, date is 10/31/07
  • No real 'system' add-ons installed aside from HTC's built-in ones like Touchflo
  • Using Sun-ExtA as my extended font, installed myself via the registry settings
  • Installed ZTA4 and Hanwang IMEs

Based on this discussion I may install a new ROM and see what happens. I think I have the latest official version, but there are a few new cooked ROMs floating around these days for the touch dual.

For the crash where I copied a bunch of text into the input field, I didn't actually successfuly select an entire entry, I just selected one page of an entry. Then I did 'something' which caused it to crash. I can't reproduce the crash now unfortunately. It still doesn't behave particularly well when you fill that field up with too much text, it won't allow the contents to be edited or deleted, the only option is to clear the whole field. Interestingly enough if you refill the query field with that query from the history it then becomes editable.

Regarding pop-up definition access in the dictionary editor, I thought it would be nice to have access to both the Pinyin and the alternate definitions, and it seemed simpler to implement from a feature request perspective. Some sort of Pinyin substitution would be cool, but you still lose definition access then.

Glad to see the sort options are there under manage cards, but is there any reason the default is 'none'? Seems like choosing a default sort like Pronunciation would be helpful.

Regarding the list font size - when I crank it up to 18 or more that's when it gets really noticeable - the Roman characters flip to what looks like a bold font, so they really stand out over the chinese headword. The Chinese headword does get bigger but the weight of the lines scales evenly with proportion to the font size. While I'd like to have the headwords to be a bit bigger in the list view I can't deal with the way it looks any higher than 16.




Flashcard Import
Regarding Skip Duplicates - my flashcard import file that was used had both headword AND pinyin with tone. So I think I can unambiguously say that these would be duplicates. Because of that I think the import routine should be skipping them. If it was just a headword without Pinyin then the current behaviour is ok, but a warning that that same headword already exists would have been nice. For example, I'm importing a file with 100 cards in it, each one with the headword plus pinyin and tone - I've already imported this file a number of times while testing, so there are already 110 cards imported fom this file.

  • If I run through it again with ABC as the first dict, here is what happens:
    • 并 bing4 in the flashcard file comes up with two matching entries in the ABC dictionary, both using bing4 as the tone. The two entries have different traditional variants.
      几 ji1 matches twice, the entry for 'nearly' has a traditional variant.
      There are few more matches like this, in every ABC case there is a traditional variant. Note my import file only had simplified characters.

    If I run through it again with Adso as the first dict, here is what happens:
    • 被 bei4 matches twice in Adso, both matches have the exact same tone/headword as the flaschcard file and what's already been imported.
      并 bing4 matches 5 entries in Adso, all of which look like 并[並] bing4. Since they all have the same simplified and same tone I'd prefer to skip this.
      These two variants repeat themselves about 75 times out of a hundred with Adso every time you import the same file. Most entries don't have a traditional variant, so the headword and Pinyin was absolutely identical to what was in the import file.

IMHO, since I have skip duplicates selected the traditional variant should not be coming into play here, they should be skipped. If I wanted to be prompted for those situations I would change the flashcard import routine to 'prompt'. The cases in Adso where the headword and Pinyin were completely identical this really seems like a bug - if I wanted to get prompted for those dupes it should only happen if I change the import option to 'prompt'. Part of the issue here is the 'skip duplicates' option gives you a false sense of security as you do an import, the current behavior means you have to be very cautious when importing a batch of new cards.

BUG - For stopping a flashcard import I didn't see the 'Stop' button before because I was being inundated with ambiguous matches. It doesn't appear to work though, even after clicking it successfully several times it didn't actually stop, it only stopped after going through the whole file. There is also a very bad side effect here - the 'stop' button is in the exact same location as the 'select' button from the multiple match screen, so as I futilely tried to click the stop button I wound up inadvertently clicking select on a bunch of cards I didn't want to. Aside from having the existing stop button work, I think adding a stop/cancel button to the 'multiple matches' window would help resolve this.


New feedback:

BUG - Another issue with IMEs. This is actually extraordinarily annoying, but subtle enough that most user's wouldn't realize it's a bug. When I want to enter a new query or edit part of an existing one, I just highlight those characters and then type the new entry. In 1.0 and just about any other application this does what is expected, and the highlighted text is replaced with the new text. Instead in 2.0 the text becomes un-highlighted as soon as the IME is touched, making it extremely difficult to replace text. It also has a nasty side effect of filling my history with typos created by this effect.

BUG - some issue with the history when doing a copy to input of Chinese characters from an E-C dictionary. When it switches over to Chinese, the first entry of the dictionary which matched the query copied to input field comes up in the history.
  • Example:
    • Have Adso installed (ABC would work with a different example)
      Look up pasteurella in the 21C dict
      Highlight the characters 巴斯, click copy to input field.
      The Adso entry will display.
      Click the back button - you'll see 吖啶酚 displayed instead of Pasteurella. Click one more time to see the correct entry.
      If you choose something which is in ABC you'll see A版 instead.
      I also saw other scenarios where more items I never viewed came up in the history, but I don't have the exact set of steps - it might be the same issue anyway.

Regression - (from Beta4, not sure what B5 did, as I didn't test at that point) I just tried to do a free answer session requiring the headword as the answer. I'm terrible at remembering how to write the characters, so after I fail miserably I want to review the stroke order for that character. In B4 I could do this because Char Info worked back then. In B6 it no longer works. :( Was this intentional, and if so why?

BUG - I'm going to categorize Touch Dual keyboard support as a bug, since I just discovered you actually DO support it in some dialogs but not others. I just created a new flashcard profile and tried typing the name using the Touch Dual keyboard and it worked! However many other (most?) dialogs don't support it. So whatever hook you have in that particular dialog should be duplicated across the others.
 
Palm Tapcis

Crash and hard reset when importing. I selected Unicode Big Endian (because I didn't know), and it crashed. Probably should have been Little Endian. Had created file with Notepad, and selected save as "Unicode" which doesn't say, but I see that the other option is "Big Endian", so...

***EDIT*** I selected "Little Endian" in the import screen, and I DID save as Little Endian...

I don't see a way to attach files here, so I will mail it, since I will be traveling for next 3 days or so.
 
Palm Tapcis

Exporting flashcard "issues"

I exported the same single category to each of the 4 formats. I set the export path to \file.txt, etc. changing the extension each time

txt and xml work as expected and export to the external card, in the root directory.

export as palm doc or pleco format, however wrote to internal storage (not expected!) AND prefixed a "/" to the start of the file names.

Is it not possible to import a Palm Doc or Pleco Flashcard format FROM an external card? That would be the only reason I could see for these later two going to the internal card. Otherwise, I'd suggest that it's a consistency bug, and ALL exports should go to the same place.
 

daniel123

榜眼
Very impressed by the stability of beta6 on my new iPaq. Now it's really the first time that I can work with it. Great job Mike!

Found the following problems:

1) One time the resume of a saved flascard session didn't work. It was neither the normal screen nor the flascard screen but anywhere between them. I had to end Pleco and start it from new. But it was not reproducible.

2) On flashcards: Advanced Settings->Modes->Maximum Audio plays seem not be used. All the time it plays 8 cards no matter what max number is configured .

3) The changes of my cards were not been saved. I go to Manage Flashcards -> i -> Edit Card -> custom. Although finishing via "Done" all changes are lost.

Daniel
 
Palm Tapcis

I imported the 2200 word flashcard file from one of the other forums here, and a large number of the cards came up mapped without any definitions. When you go to edit the card, it is set to "User" dictionary. If I change on that screen to regular dictionary, it will get the definition and be fixed in the flashcard list.

Because there were quite a few, I created a category called "fix" and assigned about 80 cards to it. All of the cards consist only of a single character and pinyin, no definition.

When I click on "More" and then select "remap to dict" and select a dictionary ABC, which WILL have these characters, since they are some of the 1st ones people learn, it processes and says "80 done" or something similar.

But, when I look at the cards, NONE of them have been updated.

Again, if I then go and edit a single card, I am able to change it to ABC dictionary (from custom), and the definition appears.

So, appears "remap to dict" is broken.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
ipsi - the file size is actually stored as the UTF-16 length rather than the length in the original encoding, and the bookmarks are likewise based on character rather than byte position, so changing codepoints or encodings shouldn't matter unless you add / remove a byte order mark from the beginning. There are other reasons besides memory leaks that there might be less memory available the second time you do something than the first time - for example, if the database cache is only half full on the first operation but fills up completely on the second one. (a more advanced memory management system would try evicting data from the cache on a failed memory allocation, but it's unlikely we'll ever implement such a system on Palm at least, though we do do it in a few limited circumstances already)

The 1.0 fullscreen palette actually had two buttons, there was the toggle button for the fullscreen / regular modes along with the on/off button. The box around the characters I prefer for consistency reasons - all of the other character input boxes have borders around them. The two reader down button issues sound like bugs - the button should be going away when it hits the end of the file. I don't think anybody's mentioned an Undo button in the sketch box before - really easy to add since it's the same code as the handwriting recognizer, though you know how much I hate adding new buttons... For the clipboard the best bet really would be to take a checksum of it and not automatically open the reader on it again if it hasn't changed since the last time, not sure how that would work performance-wise on Palm though. (I guess since it's never more than 4096 bytes it wouldn't take too long, and it would really help on Pocket PC since there's a lot more reopening / reactivating on that)

ldolse - our Touch is actually running a newer version of CE so we'll try reverting it to 5.2 (= WM 6.0 instead of 6.1) and see if that brings out the bug. We'll play around with this large copy bug, sounds like sloppy behavior somewhere in the Copy to Input chain. The default sort option is "none" because sorting comes with a significant performance hit - it's particularly noticeable with scorefile-based data, but even with things like pronunciation it's a big slowdown.

Skip Duplicates is actually behaving correctly even in the cases you describe - there are several dictionaries that use multiple entries to cover the same character/headword with a different traditional variant (for those many-to-one mapping cases) and it's quite reasonable that someone might want to have flashcards for both. In general I think it's better to err on the side of allowing duplicates rather than rejecting non-duplicated words; importing a flashcard list and *not* having a card you want show up is much worse than having two copies of the same card, the former case could cause you to miss / neglect to review an important vocabulary word while the latter just means you're studying it a bit more often than you need to. I suppose we could add a "Strict" duplicate-checking option that would check for any flashcards that matched the input (using whatever fields were in that input, so if it's characters only then it checks for any cards with the same characters) and reject them as duplicates without any disambiguation prompt, but that definitely wouldn't be the default setting.

Not sure why the Stop button isn't working - you're correct about interference, though, if we can't add a cancel button to the prompt screen we should at least make sure that the stop button doesn't overlap with any of the buttons on that screen. The IME issue you mention is probably the Pocket PC version of the selection issue Fleminator mentioned - we'll take a look and make sure the fix covers both. Not sure what's going on with the history there, I guess it's treating the dictionary switch like a new entry selection even when it isn't. Char Info in flashcards has been replaced by a tap-hold menu; you can get char info or a popup definition (or magnify / copy the text to the clipboard) by selecting it and then tap-holding the stylus, though those first two options only come up after the card is revealed. The reason the Dual keyboard works in some screens but not in others is because those screens use standard Windows text fields instead of our proprietary ones - we didn't put any hook in to enable that support. But I just found a code sample online that purportedly enables Touch-Dual-type keypad support in custom controls, so we'll try putting that in (can't test it except to make sure it doesn't screw things up on any other system) and see if that improves matters in Beta 7.

stephanhodges - thanks for the file. This is "hard reset" the way you normally define it, i.e. you have to reset the handheld with the reset button but your data isn't lost, right? Nothing leaps out at me about the import file but we'll try actually importing it and see if that explains anything - haven't done much testing yet with tone marks instead of numbers in text file imports, only with XML ones.

The / prefix shouldn't be there, but PalmDoc and Pleco format actually are supposed to go in internal memory. Pleco format is actually just an XML file wrapped up so that it can go in a Palm's internal memory, there's no difference between it and XML other than that (so we should probably just rename it to "XML (Internal)" to avoid confusion). PalmDoc would be really complicated to export to an SD card, and since its compression benefits are minimal with Chinese anyway there's again not really much reason to use it unless you want to import the created data into 1.0 - for SD cards you're just as well off with a regular text file.

daniel123 - glad to hear the stability's improved. With the saved session, was this created in Beta 5 or Beta 6? We fixed a nasty saved session bug in Beta 5, so if the session was left over from that that could explain the problem. Does the maximum audio plays setting stay configured when you change it, i.e. when you go back to that screen is it still showing the number of plays you selected? And are you testing this before or after the card is revealed? (it only applies before, and for cards with audio only enabled after reveal it doesn't apply at all) Not sure why those changes aren't saving in #3 - do other flashcard changes get saved, i.e. adding new cards and such? If you edit a dictionary-based card, does the change to that get saved?

stephanhodges again - that does sound like it's broken; you're sure you selected the ABC, right? If you select the dictionary listed on the menu right below or above it, does that make any difference? (could be that there's something wrong with the dictionary selection menu, that it's off by 1 or something like that)
 

radioman

状元
Beta 6 Comments

- Instability - On my palm, I can get out of the gate, but there is still a very good amount of instability. Exiting flashcard sessions typically sends me in to a non-descript "Fatal Error" scenario, whether I am saving the session or not - it happens like 85% of the time. I moved the databases from hidden to internal to external memory configurations to see if it helps things, but it did not. But its to the point I can exercise it a bit and provide comments.

- Audio - I never screwed around with it before, but actually it pretty useful. The issue I have is it is a bit unnatural in the presentation (my personal opinion) because of it's speed. Specifically, Is there a way to get the spacing between syllables to be less? so "peng......you" becomes "pengyou". Not sure if there is any control on that due to processor limitations or other issues.

- Only Review Cards Before Such and Such a Time - Under card filter, I see there is a way to set the time for when something is reviewed... only test cards reviewed before XXXX time. My thought is there should be a button that gives you the exact date AND time... not rounded to the nearest hour. So If I start the review at 3:33PM, then just before the review I can set the time to only include cards review cards before 3:35PM. This is very convenient. Right now I need to go in and physically set the time to 3:35 PM. Also, if a previously set time the time comes up 3:35 AM, and if I move to modify, it starts me at some very different time (e.g. 7:35PM...) to then adjust up or down.

In short, for the "only review cards before this time" function,
- I think that there should be a "now" button that sets the date and the time to NOW, and
- if the time was previously set, and you want to again change the, you start from the previously set time with regard to the "set function" and modify from there.

***** The Longer explanation of the reason for this is that if I start testing a stack of 300 cards, and exit in the middle of it (e.g., exiting without not saving the session; a crash; another program was accidentally initiated), then when I get back in, it will not repeat cards I have already reviewed for this session. I use this technique under version 1 and it works very well. Maybe its a bit of a hack, but one that has proven necessary, at least for me.

- Weighted Flashcard Review - I think I understand the concept behind the layout, but I wish I did not have to go through two button presses to get me to registering my answer (e.g., right, and then how right 6/5/4 - or wrong and then how wrong 1/2/3). Maybe have some sort of option. I personally think it would be better to have 6 smallish buttons shown so you can just move through the deck as rapidly as possible. Perhaps 3 on top with a light green background, 3 underneath in a some reddish background.

- General Comments
- I like the built in keyboard for typing as it is larger than the built-in Palm one - The larger size is much nicer for use when in a moving vehicle, or just dealing with general digitizer problems inherent to Palm.
- The ability to have the larger fonts for flashcards (which now works just fine...) along with tone numbers, is very welcome.
- I like the idea of "no announcement until there is something to announce". Even though I am making hardware decisions, I am sure it is for the best to handle things in this way. (I hope there is a surprise Iphone announcement tomorrow! :D ).

###
 

daniel123

榜眼
Hi Mike,

>Does the maximum audio plays setting stay configured when you change

Yes, I changed it to different values but it has no effect on the played audio.

>when you go back to that screen is it still showing the number of plays you selected

Do you mean the configure screen? Yes it always showed the numbers I selected.

>And are you testing this before or after the card is revealed? (it only applies before, and for cards with audio only enabled after reveal it doesn't apply at all)

I play the audio after the card is revealed. Why does it not apply for this case? Would be nice. Because I mix sentences (where it doesn't make sense to play the whole audio) and words and characters (where I always want to hear the audio)

>With the saved session, was this created in Beta 5 or Beta 6

It was in Beta 6. I installed just Beta 6 on this device. I had a similar effect in the meantime with character info screen. The problem seem to be that sometimes two screens: the dictionary mode and another screen seem to be get mixed. So I think it wasn't really a session but a cleaning screen problem.

But another problem on ending a flascard session before end problem. I configure Review cards at end and looping. If I want to stop a session and press 'no' to the question whether I want it saved, the first time nothing happens. I still stay in the flashcard session. Just the second try works and shows a "No cards found" at it's end (what looks a little strange).
I would prefer to see a statistics window.

>do other flashcard changes get saved, i.e. adding new cards and such? If you edit a dictionary-based card, does the change to that get saved?

For example to link an existing flashcard to another category or remove from a category works. To edit a flascard that is dict-based also loose its changes. To input a new card also won't be saved. Very pity because this is the last thing I need to use them heavily in daily case.

Daniel
 
Top