chengyu: how to search for Chinese idioms?
- Thread starter rossc
- Start date
There's no specific Chengyu search function built in, but the regular character and wildcard searches should work fine for looking up the meanings of Chengyu.
As for the summary of parts of speech, there's one in the back of the manual, there's one in the PlecoDict Help screen, and there's a more detailed explanation of all of those terms here.
As for the summary of parts of speech, there's one in the back of the manual, there's one in the PlecoDict Help screen, and there's a more detailed explanation of all of those terms here.
download the flashcards!
there aren't many flashcards sets for download..... but there is a set for download with 250+ idioms.... might be of some use to you.....
viewtopic.php?t=516
hope this helps...
there aren't many flashcards sets for download..... but there is a set for download with 250+ idioms.... might be of some use to you.....
viewtopic.php?t=516
hope this helps...
It would be really nice if PlecoDict could add a chengyu dictionary sometime in the not too distant future. I am aware that the ABC dictionary has something like 30,000+ chengyu, and that is what I currently use for looking them up. However, it would be really nice to have a dictionary that was just made up of chengyu, that way we could just browse through chengyu (as opposed to browsing through the entire dictionary sets in Pleco) to find something we are interested in. It would certaintly make it a lot quicker to look at a lot of chengyu at once and to find what one is interested in saying.
What do you think Mike? Have you looked into a chengyu dictionary yet, or did you decide that you already have the field covered because of the plethora of chengyu in the ABC dictionary?
I know you are extremely busy, that is why I said "in the not too distant future".
But it does seem to me that as you expand, adding specialized dictionaries, like chengyu, geographical place names, grammar guides, sentence patterns, Taiwanese words and other language dictionaries (English - Japanese - Korean - French - German - Spanish - etc...) will become more important, especially as you get more and more customers. The pelthora of dictionaries available on the Japanese stand alone electronic dictionaries is one (of the many) reason they work so well and are so popular. And, you've already got them beat in terms of your superior Pleco Interface dictionary search engine.
What do you think Mike? Have you looked into a chengyu dictionary yet, or did you decide that you already have the field covered because of the plethora of chengyu in the ABC dictionary?
I know you are extremely busy, that is why I said "in the not too distant future".
But it does seem to me that as you expand, adding specialized dictionaries, like chengyu, geographical place names, grammar guides, sentence patterns, Taiwanese words and other language dictionaries (English - Japanese - Korean - French - German - Spanish - etc...) will become more important, especially as you get more and more customers. The pelthora of dictionaries available on the Japanese stand alone electronic dictionaries is one (of the many) reason they work so well and are so popular. And, you've already got them beat in terms of your superior Pleco Interface dictionary search engine.
Many of the chengyu's in the ABC dictionary include the label "FE" (fixed expression) in the definition. Maybe all Mike has to do is make that you can easily search words that have these labels.
For example, a search like "FE & defeat" should pull up all words that are labeled FE and include defeat in the definition.
For example, a search like "FE & defeat" should pull up all words that are labeled FE and include defeat in the definition.
Hello Gato,
That is a great idea. I would still like to see a chengyu dictionary for its ease of browsing, and for some other reasons. However, in the meantime, if Mike was able to implement the search queary you suggested, it would sure make finding new chengyu much easier.
By the way, have you come across any nice chengyu dictionaries that you like, either electronic or paper?
hairyleprechaun
That is a great idea. I would still like to see a chengyu dictionary for its ease of browsing, and for some other reasons. However, in the meantime, if Mike was able to implement the search queary you suggested, it would sure make finding new chengyu much easier.
By the way, have you come across any nice chengyu dictionaries that you like, either electronic or paper?
hairyleprechaun
I looked at several chengyu dictionaries in a bookstore in Shanghai about a month ago and bought "多功能学生成语词典" (see link below). It's a Chinese-to-Chinese chengyu dictionary meant for Chinese elementary and high school students. It's nice in that its index allows you find all chengyu's that have a particular character (regardless of the position of the character in the chengyu). In addition, each chengyu entry has example sentences, and a list of antonym and synonym chengyu's.
http://www.joyo.com/detail/product.asp? ... gqags5sqg9
多功能学生成语词典
作者：张国强
http://www.joyo.com/detail/product.asp? ... gqags5sqg9
多功能学生成语词典
作者：张国强
Thanks for the link Gato. I will go over to Wudaokou today and see if I can find it in a bookstore.
This one's pretty good:
A Chinese-English Dictionary of Chinese Idioms by Pan Weigui
ISBN: 7800522377
It's not the most comprehensive with only 2327 idioms and you'd be best getting something different as a reader's idiom dictionary (actually, the ABC dictionary is pretty darn good as a reader's dictionary for chengyu - I don't think I would need a substitute for that), but this one is excellent as a writer's idiom dictionary and certainly has pretty much all the idioms I'm ever going to use in my written work.
I have tried other idiom dictionaries but found them not particularly useful at how to actually USE idioms. The worst will just give one example of usage. Rubbish. This book is better. Examples are given describing when (if) you can use each idiom as a predicate, object, attribute, complement, etc etc and typically giving you example sentences of each type of usage - very very useful as idioms aren't just something you can typically throw into a sentence any which way but loose and expect not to sound awkward. Also, some idioms will typically only be used to modify certain verbs or nouns. Synonyms and antonyms are also mentioned where appropriate. Finally, the bilingual format is always a help; where there is a suitable English equivalent for the idiom, it is given and the English is clear and well-translated while the Chinese, well it's always good to practice your reading. Full Chinese entries are given with English translation only for the idiom's meaning and the grammar (the bits that are usually tough to grasp in a C-C dictionary), but the examples are Chinese only.
To give you a brief example (without breaking any copyright laws I hope!
I'll just give a run-through of what information there is)
A random entry I opened the book on - the idiom shou3 kou3 ru2 ping2
The dictionary gives the Literal Meaning, the Metaphorical meaning and an English Equivalent ("to keep as silent as the grave"). In usage it describes the idiom's use as a predicate, an attributive, an object and a complement and then gives examples of all four usages. As a predicate, the dictionary points out that it "may be preceded by a prepositional phrase indicating the target, for example dui4, or by such words as yao4, bi4xu1 and yi1ding4" (obviously the dictionary shows the characters, not my crappy pinyin). As an attributive, it "modifes nouns referring to people". As an object it "often cooperates with the predicate verb bao3zheng4". The dictionary also points out it can also be used as a complement. The four examples then given seem to have been chosen to illustrate these usages. For example, the attributive example does indeed use the chengyu to modify a person.
I'd recommend that if an idiom dictionary was included in Plecodict's offerings, it should be one aimed at writing, like this one, not just a basic reference, which the ABC does more than adequately.
It's also worthwhile pointing out that most Chinese won't have a clue about a great many idioms in the ABC dictionary, quite a few being sourced from classical documents and as familiar to the average Chinese-speaker as much of Shakespeare or Chaucer is to the average English-speaker. (Hence ABC's usefulness in reading but not writing). A more limited set of a couple of thousand idioms is much more useful for writing essays, browsing for fun and then not sounding too obviously non-native-trying-hard-to-sound-clever when you eventually end up using some of them .
Other good idiom writing dictionaries?
Ben
A Chinese-English Dictionary of Chinese Idioms by Pan Weigui
ISBN: 7800522377
It's not the most comprehensive with only 2327 idioms and you'd be best getting something different as a reader's idiom dictionary (actually, the ABC dictionary is pretty darn good as a reader's dictionary for chengyu - I don't think I would need a substitute for that), but this one is excellent as a writer's idiom dictionary and certainly has pretty much all the idioms I'm ever going to use in my written work.
I have tried other idiom dictionaries but found them not particularly useful at how to actually USE idioms. The worst will just give one example of usage. Rubbish. This book is better. Examples are given describing when (if) you can use each idiom as a predicate, object, attribute, complement, etc etc and typically giving you example sentences of each type of usage - very very useful as idioms aren't just something you can typically throw into a sentence any which way but loose and expect not to sound awkward. Also, some idioms will typically only be used to modify certain verbs or nouns. Synonyms and antonyms are also mentioned where appropriate. Finally, the bilingual format is always a help; where there is a suitable English equivalent for the idiom, it is given and the English is clear and well-translated while the Chinese, well it's always good to practice your reading. Full Chinese entries are given with English translation only for the idiom's meaning and the grammar (the bits that are usually tough to grasp in a C-C dictionary), but the examples are Chinese only.
To give you a brief example (without breaking any copyright laws I hope!
I'll just give a run-through of what information there is)A random entry I opened the book on - the idiom shou3 kou3 ru2 ping2
The dictionary gives the Literal Meaning, the Metaphorical meaning and an English Equivalent ("to keep as silent as the grave"). In usage it describes the idiom's use as a predicate, an attributive, an object and a complement and then gives examples of all four usages. As a predicate, the dictionary points out that it "may be preceded by a prepositional phrase indicating the target, for example dui4, or by such words as yao4, bi4xu1 and yi1ding4" (obviously the dictionary shows the characters, not my crappy pinyin). As an attributive, it "modifes nouns referring to people". As an object it "often cooperates with the predicate verb bao3zheng4". The dictionary also points out it can also be used as a complement. The four examples then given seem to have been chosen to illustrate these usages. For example, the attributive example does indeed use the chengyu to modify a person.
I'd recommend that if an idiom dictionary was included in Plecodict's offerings, it should be one aimed at writing, like this one, not just a basic reference, which the ABC does more than adequately.
It's also worthwhile pointing out that most Chinese won't have a clue about a great many idioms in the ABC dictionary, quite a few being sourced from classical documents and as familiar to the average Chinese-speaker as much of Shakespeare or Chaucer is to the average English-speaker. (Hence ABC's usefulness in reading but not writing). A more limited set of a couple of thousand idioms is much more useful for writing essays, browsing for fun and then not sounding too obviously non-native-trying-hard-to-sound-clever when you eventually end up using some of them
.Other good idiom writing dictionaries?
Ben
Hello Ben,
Thank you very much for the comprehensive review of the "A Chinese-English Dictionary of Chinese Idioms" by Pan Weigui.
Since I didn't make it over to Wudaokou yesterday as planned, I will be there today checking out this dictionary and the "多功能学生成语词典" mentioned earlier by Gato.
I agree completely with you in the importance of explaining the usage of the idioms. I tend towards perfectionism, so it bothers the hell out of me when my textbooks have grammar/sentence patterns, noun phrases, or idioms, but doesn't explain when/how to use them.
Thanks again!
Hairyleprechaun
Thank you very much for the comprehensive review of the "A Chinese-English Dictionary of Chinese Idioms" by Pan Weigui.
Since I didn't make it over to Wudaokou yesterday as planned, I will be there today checking out this dictionary and the "多功能学生成语词典" mentioned earlier by Gato.
I agree completely with you in the importance of explaining the usage of the idioms. I tend towards perfectionism, so it bothers the hell out of me when my textbooks have grammar/sentence patterns, noun phrases, or idioms, but doesn't explain when/how to use them.
Thanks again!
Hairyleprechaun