cross-grade license

garysaville

进士
Mike, with the Android Beta closing down, have you had time to consider whether you will offer a cross-grade license to users who want Pleco on both an iOS device and an Android device?
I'm still not totally sold on Android, but even more concerning is that I've purchased every dictionary and upgrade for the iOS platform. I enjoy using my iPad, but I often end up going out with only my Android phone, so having both platforms is essential. I'm a terrible negotiator, since I've already told you that I would buy both, but, just digging for a bit of a break. The expense will continue into the future since I'll need to purchase new dictionaries on two platforms.

Best,
G
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
garysaville said:
Mike, with the Android Beta closing down, have you had time to consider whether you will offer a cross-grade license to users who want Pleco on both an iOS device and an Android device?
I'm still not totally sold on Android, but even more concerning is that I've purchased every dictionary and upgrade for the iOS platform. I enjoy using my iPad, but I often end up going out with only my Android phone, so having both platforms is essential. I'm a terrible negotiator, since I've already told you that I would buy both, but, just digging for a bit of a break. The expense will continue into the future since I'll need to purchase new dictionaries on two platforms.
No need for that, iOS copies can be used on both - the same licensing language that allows for the use of one iOS copy on multiple iDevices also allows for its use on Android ones. So by transferring your license from iOS you don't lose the ability to keep using it on iOS, or even to move future purchases made on iOS to Android.

We are not offering Android to iOS transfers, however, and are unlikely to offer those in the future since we're worried about violating Apple's rules (they'd effectively give you a way to buy Pleco outside of iTunes). So any future add-on purchases would have to be made on iOS and then transferred to Android if you wanted to have them on both platforms. But the transfer system allows for that - you can transfer an un-transferred iOS item to an existing Android license. (for Android to iOS, at least for items purchased through our own store we'll probably offer refunds within some reasonable period after you supply proof that you've bought the equivalent item on iOS, but the exact policy on that is TBD)
 
YOU GUYS ROCK.

I just went to go tell my wife before writing this. I can't think of a more customer friendly response/policy/decision. I wish you guys sold other things just so I could buy them from you.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
ConfuciusTse said:
YOU GUYS ROCK.

I just went to go tell my wife before writing this. I can't think of a more customer friendly response/policy/decision. I wish you guys sold other things just so I could buy them from you.
Thanks! I never felt good about having to require people who'd transferred a Palm/WM license to iPhone to buy another copy to use on their iPads, so I'm very happy that things worked out so that we can be more flexible for iOS buyers.
 

garysaville

进士
Thanks Mike. It did feel a bit like pirating when I transferred everything onto my Android phone. :D
Looking forward to actually purchasing the desktop version to pay you back for all the coding work.

G
 

Spufi

Member
I just got an Android device (Samasung galaxy Player) and want to set it up with Pleco. I want to transfer my license from iOS. I went to the My Orders page and entered my e-mail and and register id and hit "login". It told me that my e-mail was already in the database and that I should go to the My Orders page and login. There is no field on the My Orders page for a password.

Not sure what I am doing wrong.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Spufi said:
I just got an Android device (Samasung galaxy Player) and want to set it up with Pleco. I want to transfer my license from iOS. I went to the My Orders page and entered my e-mail and and register id and hit "login". It told me that my e-mail was already in the database and that I should go to the My Orders page and login. There is no field on the My Orders page for a password.
You can use the first form on the page to log in. Sorry for the confusing text - I've updated it to reflect that it works for previously-registered iOS/Android Market purchases too.
 

Spufi

Member
Thanks for the quick reply Mike. I knew it had to be something simple like that. Its now installed and looks like its working.
 
I'm surprised that you're not mentioning the ability to purchase an iOs version and have it also available on Android, on the official Android sales page (at least on your web site). There's going to be a percentage of people with both devices, and even for people who only have an Android device, it leaves a good impression. :shock:
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
stephanhodges said:
I'm surprised that you're not mentioning the ability to purchase an iOs version and have it also available on Android, on the official Android sales page (at least on your web site). There's going to be a percentage of people with both devices, and even for people who only have an Android device, it leaves a good impression. :shock:
I don't think we're allowed to mention it on Android Market (and we're certainly not allowed to mention it on iTunes), but good point, I'll make more prominent reference to it on the website pages.
 

leoninto

秀才
Hi,

I'm about to purchase for Android, but wanted to clarify this. My gf has a lot of iDevices (2 or 3 iphones and 2 ipads). I may take one of them to use in the future or buy an iPhone 5 (if the hardware is sexy enough).

So, if I purchase on the apple app store, set it up on one of the devices, I can then transfer the license to my Android devices (up to 3), and STILL be allowed to use it on my iphone/ipad? Essentially 4 devices?

Thanks
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
leoninto said:
I'm about to purchase for Android, but wanted to clarify this. My gf has a lot of iDevices (2 or 3 iphones and 2 ipads). I may take one of them to use in the future or buy an iPhone 5 (if the hardware is sexy enough).

So, if I purchase on the apple app store, set it up on one of the devices, I can then transfer the license to my Android devices (up to 3), and STILL be allowed to use it on my iphone/ipad? Essentially 4 devices?
Yes, indeed you can.
 

jaygid

Member
mikelove said:
We are not offering Android to iOS transfers, however, and are unlikely to offer those in the future since we're worried about violating Apple's rules (they'd effectively give you a way to buy Pleco outside of iTunes).
Mike, I think you might be interpreting Apple's policies a little too cautiously. The restriction is not on accessing content purchased outside iTunes, but whether the app itself allows a purchase outside the 30%-cut iTunes market.

Looking at the most notable example, and possibly the single company for whom the rule was really created, the Amazon Kindle app on iOS allows you to access content you purchased from another device such as your computer or Android device. And if you go to Amazon.com from your iOS device, you can still purchase content that's accessible in the Kindle app. You just can't make purchases from within the Kindle app, because Amazon decided that handing 30% over to Apple wasn't a good business proposition.

If there was an account login with content purchases attached, then surely Apple couldn't object to purchases attached to the account being available to all devices where that account is logged in. Or, there may be other methods.

Of course, this doesn't concern me personally... I have no interest in buying an iOS device, mostly because of their restrictions like this :)
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
jaygid said:
Mike, I think you might be interpreting Apple's policies a little too cautiously. The restriction is not on accessing content purchased outside iTunes, but whether the app itself allows a purchase outside the 30%-cut iTunes market.

Looking at the most notable example, and possibly the single company for whom the rule was really created, the Amazon Kindle app on iOS allows you to access content you purchased from another device such as your computer or Android device. And if you go to Amazon.com from your iOS device, you can still purchase content that's accessible in the Kindle app. You just can't make purchases from within the Kindle app, because Amazon decided that handing 30% over to Apple wasn't a good business proposition.

If there was an account login with content purchases attached, then surely Apple couldn't object to purchases attached to the account being available to all devices where that account is logged in. Or, there may be other methods.
That's true for "content" like books and dictionaries, but Apple differentiates between that and "functionality" like OCR, flashcards, etc, and the latter can't be unlocked by any mechanism other than their store. I actually had a meeting with two people from App Review at last summer's developer conference and they seemed to feel that offering transfers that included add-ons other than dictionaries would be a problem.

Now I suppose we could then offer dictionary transfers from Android to iOS at least, but I'd much rather push our current approach of offering refunds if you buy the Android version from our own store but then switch to / repurchase the same version of Pleco on iOS within a year - that way we can cover everything. Nobody's going to feel like they're getting a "free" transfer if they have to buy $40 or $50 worth of non-dictionary add-ons again. Plus, we'd run the risk of getting into trouble with the companies we license dictionaries from - if we're making money off of somebody's platform transfer then they'll want to know why they aren't getting any royalties off of it.
 

jaygid

Member
mikelove said:
That's true for "content" like books and dictionaries, but Apple differentiates between that and "functionality" like OCR, flashcards, etc, and the latter can't be unlocked by any mechanism other than their store. I actually had a meeting with two people from App Review at last summer's developer conference and they seemed to feel that offering transfers that included add-ons other than dictionaries would be a problem.
:( Thanks for the update! Too bad about it though...
 

leoninto

秀才
mikelove said:
Yes, indeed you can.
One more question as I finally swapped my old android phone to an iPhone 4. If I buy the $99 bundle which doesn't include OCR, will I get OCR when I switch to Android? I just realized the Android pro package is $79, 20 bucks cheaper and includes OCR (so 35 bucks cheaper), but since you won't be offering Android -> iOS, I'll probably buy the iPhone package to get access to both so I'm future proofed for the next 3-10 years.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
leoninto said:
One more question as I finally swapped my old android phone to an iPhone 4. If I buy the $99 bundle which doesn't include OCR, will I get OCR when I switch to Android? I just realized the Android pro package is $79, 20 bucks cheaper and includes OCR (so 35 bucks cheaper), but since you won't be offering Android -> iOS, I'll probably buy the iPhone package to get access to both so I'm future proofed for the next 3-10 years.
Unfortunately no - you only get the same add-ons you had on iOS. However, it's likely that some of the bundles that we debut on iOS with 2.3 this spring will include OCR (albeit perhaps at a higher price than the current bundles). Couple of reasons why we're currently more generous with Android than iOS bundles:

  • Pleco Store - roughly 60% of our Android sales are done through our own store, where instead of paying Google or Apple a 30% commission we pay our credit card processor a 3% one. So we actually make more money on an $80 Professional bundle sold through our own store than on a $100 bundle sold through Apple's. Now of course we do sell $80 bundles through Android Market too - we were going to charge more but decided it wouldn't be fair to punish people for their choice of payment method - but still our average net receipts from an $80 item on Android are a lot higher than they would be on iOS.
  • Handwriting Licensing - we're currently giving away the handwriting add-on for free on Android - licensing it on a flat fee rather than a per-copy basis - so without OCR, the per-copy royalties we pay on Android bundles would be a lot lower than on iOS ones. OCR comes closer to evening it out. It also evens things out for the buyer, since they're getting handwriting for free anyway and therefore having it in the bundle is not really an incentive to buy the bundle. We're doing this largely for promotional reasons, and if/when we stop offering free handwriting we'll probably raise the prices of our bundles to reflect the per-copy royalties we might then have to pay on it, but for right now we have to pretty much ignore handwriting as a factor in bundle pricing on Android.
  • Educational Discounts - more iOS users buy the Professional bundle with an educational discount for $70 than without one for $100. On Android we've abolished the discounts and set prices in between those two levels. We may do that on iOS too at some point, depending on the reaction we get to not offering educational discounts on Android. (so far it's been pretty good but we haven't yet had much feedback from our friends in language schools / study abroad programs / etc)
 
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