Electronic Versions of 紅樓夢?

Fernando

榜眼
As per title of the thread, I'm looking for electronic versions of The Story of the Stone, either simplified or traditional, which:

1 - State clearly at the beginning which edition it is, as there are a few to choose from.

2 - Is non-DRMed, so that it can be loaded into Pleco.

3 - Contains all the 120 chapters.

I found one on Apple Books (simplified) that seems to be the one used in the Yang translation, but, though it's a free ebook, it's DRMed. Meanwhile the one in Project Gutenberg is clearly a traditional version that started it's life as simplified, as there are remnants of simplified text inside. It's also a different edition, but doesn't say which one. I also have the Hawkes translation, but that one is, as the translator said in his intro, based on many different editions of the original.

Any input greatly appreciated.
 

Shun

状元
Hi Fernando,

I think I can make you happy in this case. I once used Hong Lou Meng for a simple network analysis of relationships between all of the novel’s characters and found that Wenlin has a nice version in Simplified Chinese with 120 chapters, which they had originally obtained from the 李晓渝 website in 1998. It doesn't state explicitly that it's Gao E’s version, but after some research, I concluded that it was:

“The version of HLM chosen is the Gao E 高鹗 version based on the manuscript of commentator Red Inkstone or Zhiyanzhai 脂砚斋 from the Qianlong gengchen 乾隆庚辰 year. (26th year of the reign of the Qianlong Emperor, or 1761) The digital text of HLM obtained from Wenlin’s text library naturally did not include any detailed information on its origin, which made necessary a comparison with various editions of the work at the institute’s library. There was one set of books whose chapter headings and text matched the digital text completely.[1] I verified the identity of the two texts by searching for random samples of text I picked from the printed book in the digital text, performing about 30 spot checks, where I also looked at the surrounding text. I found the two to be identical, apart from small differences in punctuation and paragraph boundaries. The book I found at the library also included detailed information on its origin.”

[1] CAO 1985: Cao, Xueqin 曹雪芹; Gao, E 高鹗. Hong Lou Meng 红楼梦. 3 Vols. First printing. Beijing: People’s Literature Publishing House 人民文学出版社, 1985.

If you own Wenlin, you can find the text in the Wenlin432Tushuguan/Text2/Misc directory (size 1.9 MB). Otherwise, I will send the text to you by private message.

Hope this helps,

Shun
 

Fernando

榜眼
Thanks Shun! You're an absolute hero!

I went on a quest for my copy of Wenlin 4.3.2, which I was sure I had on a pen drive somewhere. That seems to be lost now, but I found the original DVD I purchased ten years ago with version 4.1.1 in it. Lo and behold, all those extra texts were there, including 紅樓夢.

Now, just to clarify things a little further. Is that Gal E version from 1761 the same one published by Gao E and Cheng Weiyuan in 1791 or is it a different text altogether? It is at any rate different from the other two I have here.

Edit:

Ok, if I understand this correctly, the gengchen version is one of the manuscript versions, much prior to the first print edition of 1791, and collectively known as the "rouge" manuscripts because of Red Inkstone's commentary? So definitely different from the later print editions?
 
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Shun

状元
You're welcome, Fernando, thanks! :)

I researched the back story a bit. This is what I had found on the relationship to the 1791/1792 version published with Cheng Weiyuan (based on the Hawkes introduction, as well):

“Gao E (c. 1738 – c. 1815) and Cheng Weiyuan 程伟元 published the first printed edition in 1792. Before that date, only manuscripts of the first 80 chapters circulated in the drawing-rooms of the Manchu nobility. The author Cao Xueqin 曹雪芹 (1715?–63) passed away a few years after completing the first 80 chapters, and it is becoming more likely that the last 40 chapters are based on a version from an anonymous close relative of Cao Xueqin’s. Cao had married a new wife late in his life. After he died, she passed the manuscripts of the last 40 chapters first to family friends, who altered them and later sold them to Cheng Weiyuan, a bookseller friend of Gao E’s, who passed them on to him. Whether scholar Gao E only edited, or possibly fabricated much of the last 40 chapters hasn’t yet been established. It is becoming more likely that he left them relatively intact, and just edited them to bring them into agreement with the first 80 chapters.”

As you have also said, it probably has undergone many different changes between 1761 and 1791/92, but primarily in the last 40 chapters. Maybe the very newest research is more enlightened than that, but I am not up to date, unfortunately. In the final analysis, it may be helpful if you read the preface to the 1985 set of 3 volumes I cited in my first post. If you can't get to it, I could also photograph the relevant pages on the background of the 1761 manuscript and send them to you. Just tell me.

Edit: The manuscript in Wenlin couldn't have been finished in 1761, since Cao Xueqin was still alive at that point.

Edit 2:

Ok, if I understand this correctly, the gengchen version is one of the manuscript versions, much prior to the first print edition of 1791, and collectively known as the "rouge" manuscripts because of Red Inkstone's commentary? So definitely different from the later print editions?

Yes, that appears to be the case, unfortunately. I don't know which version is more authoritative / represents the work better.

Sorry about you having to dig up that 10-year-old DVD.

Cheers,

Shun
 
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Fernando

榜眼
Edit: The manuscript in Wenlin couldn't have been finished in 1761, since Cao Xueqin was still alive at that point.

Yes, I was going to say this. I haven't read much about the topic besides the wikipedia page and Hawkes introduction, but it seems that the last 40 chapters, the ones of questionable authorship, appeared in the first print version, also by Gao E. All the "rouge" manuscripts of the 1750s and 1760s contained only 80 chapters, that includes the gengchen manuscript. So while the version found within Wenlin might be the gengchen up to chapter 80, the last 40 chapters can't be. Perhaps the intro to the version you mentioned, from 1985, can elucidate this?

Sorry about you having to dig up that 10-year-old DVD.
That was actually good man. Found some other texts that might come in handy later.
 

Shun

状元
Yes, I was going to say this. I haven't read much about the topic besides the wikipedia page and Hawkes introduction, but it seems that the last 40 chapters, the ones of questionable authorship, appeared in the first print version, also by Gao E. All the "rouge" manuscripts of the 1750s and 1760s contained only 80 chapters, that includes the gengchen manuscript. So while the version found within Wenlin might be the gengchen up to chapter 80, the last 40 chapters can't be. Perhaps the intro to the version you mentioned, from 1985, can elucidate this?

That's quite possible, I think it went into quite some detail. I read it about 5 years ago. If needed, I can definitely go to the library, photograph the relevant parts and DM them to you.

That was actually good man. Found some other texts that might come in handy later.

Wonderful!
 

Fernando

榜眼
If needed, I can definitely go to the library, photograph the relevant parts and DM them to you.
If you're going there anyway that'd be very cool, but I wouldn't ask you to get out of your way just for that. Perhaps they have a scanned version available online?
 

Shun

状元
Sure, I'll be glad to do it next week. I will be near the library, anyway. Some things are scanned, you're right, but usually only the tables of contents so one can decide whether to order a book. Older books, including this one, are actually still in a physical catalogue.
 
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