ideas for iphone reader

benzhen

进士
so when i'm sitting in front of my htc tilt on the verge of frustrated tears. i dream of the iphone edition and how to creatively get documents on the reader (the most important feature and most used feature for me). besides the obvious implementation of 'open from clipboard' a really cool feature (that could be on all the platforms) is the option to save said piece of copied text as a text file. it would be great because you can copy from safari.

also you could implement the bookz style of file loading by downloading text files from a browser. (which was made more useful by being able to download .zip files). the pleco users could maintain a repository of chinese texts for users.

one other really cool thing that probably isn't possible would be to implement a browser inside pleco that could have tap-to-look-up built right in.

also with jailbreaking, it's really easy to get files of any sort onto your iphone.

well there's my daydream...looking forward to selling my winmo phone...
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
The initial release won't have all of BookZ's capabilities - the ability to transfer files from your computer to your handheld probably won't come until the later flashcard-equipped version (and that likely relying on Pleco's web server as the intermediary, rather than a server running on your own computer - the latter is just too unreliable, we can't afford to start providing tech support for everyone's home WiFi network). But clipboard support should certainly be there, and there should be at least some way to download text files via a URL or somesuch.
 

benzhen

进士
yeah i usually end up loading all the files for my friends with bookz. also, do you know of any clipboard limit for iphone?
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
If there is one, we haven't run into it yet - however, performance starts to suffer with really big ones, especially if they're in HTML.
 

benzhen

进士
so that means there will be no way to open files in the initial release? just "open from clipboard"? that also would mean no saving position though right? i'm not too worried because with jailbreaking you can run stuff in the background so i would just keep pleco going in order to not loose my position. also you can easily drag and drop files with a jailbreak too.

about supporting setting up a web server for all your customers. isilo already has great walk-throughs on its site on how to set up a server to transfer books onto the iphone (windows vista is 40 steps!!!!). i mean its the only way unfortunately (unless the future desktop version of pleco had some syncing ability, but i can only dream). the idea of uploading a file to a pleco server just to get it onto my phone is pretty unsavory...
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
As I said, there should be a way to download text files through a URL or somesuch - some sort of basic bookmark capability should also be available, I think.

We certainly don't plan to make transferring files through our own server the only option - just providing the ability to type in a URL and download a text file from there is enough to facilitate direct transfers from one's home computer - but asking a not-very-computer-literate person to fiddle around with typing in IP addresses (or, worse yet, reconfiguring their Firewall) as necessitated by BookZ et al just isn't reasonable, and that's why I think it makes sense to offer our own server as an option; people could simply log on to an account and click on a button to upload the file (or perhaps even send an e-mail attachment to a special address) and then have that automatically transfer to their phone the next time they run Pleco. It'd be useful infrastructure for us to develop anyway, since it would also help with, say, transferring or backing up flashcard data.
 

benzhen

进士
i see. yeah i agree and fault apple for making something as simple as putting a file onto a device this complicated. maybe they'll eventually fix it. the pleco server idea sounds very cool. obviously you guys are thinking about it way more thoroughly than me.
 

JCC

Member
A bunch of apps use Bonjour so that the iPhone and the device its syncing with can discover each other. I'm pretty sure this is how Stanza Desktop works, for example. I never have firewall issues with it (yes, my firewall is up and sealed tight) nor do I ever have to type in an IP address. The company that makes WritePad has a simple "sync" program that simply discovers the IP address and port that the WritePad app's HTTP server is running on then opens a Safari window. Again, no firewall nor IP address issues. (WritePad does display the IP address and port. i.e., you can type in the address into Safari if you want.)

Yes, this requires some OS X and Windows software development. Arguably, developing for iPhone and Windows Mobile gives you a leg up. I can see why desktop software development may not be in the cards though. (Also, this means the Windows user will have to download Bonjour For Windows. However, any Windows user with an iPhone probably already has, or will need to for some other app.)

Apps like Good Reader and QuickOffice make their sandboxes available as WebDAV mountable drives. Directions for mounting the drive are simple for OS X and Windows. (I'm ignoring Linux because the question is how to deal with a "not-very-computer-literate person.") After that, it's just drag and drop to add or subtract files. They both require typing in an IP address and port. Presumably, they could have written a program that used Bonjour to discover the iPhone/iPod touch then mount the drive. (The directions really are simple though.)

I'm not saying that any of these methods are right, or even adequate, for Pleco. I'm also fully aware that it's much easier to suggest ways of doing things than it is to actually do them. I'm just pointing out how other companies have dealt with similar problems. (Apple's refusal to admit that there is a filesystem does make getting files on and off more difficult than I'd like.) BookZ's solution isn't the only one.

(I'm glad to hear there will be some other way because going through Pleco's server though. Due to non-technical reason, some documents can't spend time on other people's servers. period.)
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Bonjour might be a possibility, though I'm not wild about the dependence on desktop software - again, it's a whole extra layer of installation / support complexity, whereas with a web page there's no such issue. WebDAV seems like it would be a lot of work to implement, as there aren't any open-source iPhone implementations that I can find - anyway, there are parts of the sandbox we'd rather hide from the user (not that we imagine that'll help security, but simply to keep people from accidentally deleting / renaming / moving essential data files). Running a simple HTTP server on the phone wouldn't be too difficult, though, with a basic POST function taking care of the file uploads.

Given the amount of control / backdoor access Apple seems to have to iPhones, though, if you've got a really sensitive document it probably shouldn't be spending time on one of them at all.
 

JCC

Member
mikelove said:
Given the amount of control / backdoor access Apple seems to have to iPhones, though, if you've got a really sensitive document it probably shouldn't be spending time on one of them at all.

Given the recent Amazon kerfuffle, I imagine Apple will not be doing much snooping around inside people's iPhones. In any case, I make distinction between someone breaking into my iPhone to steal a document and me sending a document out into the internet. Otherwise, the only thing anyone can do is make sure it never gets into a computer in the first place. That's not very good for your business.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
True - better not to be explicitly placing your sensitive documents in the hands of another company. (one of many reasons why it seems unlikely cloud-based apps will ever completely replace native ones)
 

radioman

状元
This is in reference to loading user files onto the iPhone, and some general comments. This does not address need for support, or address whether or not the methods provide good security.

I have worked with maybe a dozen different programs that upload files to the iPhone. Many are quite annoying. This is not an advertisement, just my two cents on methods that have proven to be easy for me to use as an end user.

The ones with the easiest mechanism to date is "iFlash" that simply moves the files through the local WiFi network onto your phone. It just works and has not given me any configuration problems to speak of. You are prompted for a code the first time to marry the device.

Another program with an easy mechanism for loading is 'instapaper". They just have a bookmarklet. From best I can tell though, it stores links that are fed to some server on the internet. Then the end user utilizes the iPhone app to download webpages to store locally in the iPhone.

I have used PDF viewers that have been really bad with larger documents that utilize drag and drop, setting up target folders, etc., which, with the extra configuration, has proven to be a bit of a pain.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
For the first release we're going with URL download support and an embedded web server (very easy to implement thanks to the lovely BSDed CocoaHTTPServer project) - not perfect, but should be workable for most people at least, and the interface for both is pretty intuitive (type in a URL on your phone in the former case and a URL on your desktop in the later). Ultimately, though, something involving uploading / downloading files on pleco.com is probably a necessity too, to work around firewall/router-related issues, and an autodiscovery / desktop sync option might also make sense.
 

gato

状元
Uploading documents through local Wi-fi works well right now, but it's probably still too complicated for those who are not so tech-savy. Another issue is that there are many times when one want to upload something but don't have a PC and iPhone on the same Wi-fi network, say in the office/school environment where the PC is likely to be connected to the network by cable.

One option to consider is to allow synching of files (reader docs and flashcards) through Google Docs or Google Notebooks. There are already a number of apps that sync with Docs or Notebooks: gNotes syncs with Google Notebook, SavySoda's Text Editor / Documents and Notes Pro can sync with Google Docs.

I assume that it shouldn't be too complicated. The Google APIs seem fairly mature. And Google is likely is to be in business for a while, which is an important consideration when choosing an online syncing solution.

I suppose Google Docs / Notebooks could also be accessed using the built-in browser, but it seems like a more integrated solution would be easier to use.

http://code.google.com/apis/documents/d ... oadingDocs
Google Docs API

http://code.google.com/apis/notebook/do ... tebookList
Google Notebook API
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
I'd rather use a more generic solution for this than something dependent on Google, particularly given my mixed feelings about Google in general (the existence / success of Android being a not-very-good thing for Pleco). WebDAV sync or something along those lines is my preferred approach at the moment, given the plethora of online WebDAV storage services out there.
 

gato

状元
WebDAV sounds good, too, though after briefly looking into the issues, I don't see any big name sites (such as box.net) offering official support for WebDAV for free. Apple's MobileMe iDisk appears to support WebDAV, but it requires a subscription fee, which doesn't seem justifiable if all one wanted to do is to sync some flashcards. Maybe you can set up a WebDAV sync solution on Pleco's servers. With strict usage limits, it probably shouldn't be too costly for you to provide it. I think you probably do need a default sync solution so that people don't have to research what providers to use, given that WebDAV is not ubiquitous yet.

Here's a thread discussing some free providers:
http://forums.omnigroup.com/showthread.php?t=11054
List of free webDAV sync providers
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Hmm... is there another protocol that's more widely supported? It would be easy for us to add regular FTP / SFTP client support too, I suppose. I'd rather not be in the business of file-hosting ourselves if we can avoid it, but perhaps we could partner up with some reputable WebDAV service provider somewhere. If we just wanted to do our own thing, we'd be better off with a proprietary sync protocol (easier to implement / add interesting new features to), but I've gotten the impression a lot of people would like the flexibility to choose their own provider for things like flashcard backups (or host them themselves).
 

gato

状元
Even fewer non-techie users will have access to an FTP/SFTP server, I think....

Maybe the easiest thing to do is to email oneself and download through the built-in browser. It's already available in the current version, though it needs to work some kinks out. I just tried emailing myself some text files. Can we make that the default if the downloaded file is a text file? This is what happens when I upload the files through Wifi. I would like to be able to do the same thing through the browser.

When I emailed myself an .txt extension file (UTF-8 with BOM) and tried to download it in Gmail, the browser just opened the file for viewing without saving it or giving me an option to save it.

I then renamed the file (UTF-8 with BOM) with .uni extension instead of .txt and emailed it to myself again. When I tried to download it from Gmail, the built-in browser prompted me for the file name but not the encoding. I see that the file is saved in the "Downloads" folder, but the file icon has a question mark over it, the file name is grayed out and the file cannot be opened. I don't see an option to tell the reader what the encoding is.

Beside saving a text file off a web page, I would also like there to be a built-in HTML-to-text converter, so that if there's a web page I want to save to read, the converter can strip the HTML code out and save the web page as a text file. I know this is already more or less achievable using copy and paste, but copy and paste is cumbersome is the page is long (requires a lot of dragging), and isn't there a limit to the size of the pasteboard?
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
The .txt download issue is intermittent, happens due to a bug which we found the day after submitting our first bug-fix release to Apple; should be fixed in the second bug-fix release, though. (we may also debut WebDAV support or something like it in that release, since we'd like to get that widely field-tested a bit before we rely on it for flashcard backups) If you enable "Show file extensions" in Settings / Reader that will let you rename that .uni file to a .txt file, though we should probably detect / interpret .uni (and .u8 / .gb / .b5) as valid file extensions too.

HTML-to-text conversion certainly could be doable, though we'd really like to get to a point where we can rely on Live Mode for most offline document reading at least.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Oh, and I just discovered that box.net actually does support WebDAV, they just don't seem to make a big deal out of it - https://box.net/dav. This by itself increases my confidence in the continued availability of free WebDAV storage.
 
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