iOS5, iCloud and Pleco

[dcarpent]

Mike,

Now that Apple has officially launched iOS5 and iCloud can you share your thoughts of how these will affect Pleco on the iPhone, esp. the issue of syncing flashcards between iPhones and iPads? Did the announcement today add anything to what you already knew about their potential? Do you expect to incorporate iCloud into Pleco for the iPhone in the much anticipated update that you have been working on? Does Siri have any significance for Pleco? Does the new iPhone 4S offer any advantages for Pleco users? Basically, I guess I'm asking what you thought of today's annoucements, and whether there was anything new (or anything that you can now talk about without violating non-disclosure agreements).

Is it fair to hope that your attention will now shift back to the iPhone far awhile, after the development of the Android version?

 

[mikelove]

Now that Apple has officially launched iOS5 and iCloud can you share your thoughts of how these will affect Pleco on the iPhone, esp. the issue of syncing flashcards between iPhones and iPads? Did the announcement today add anything to what you already knew about their potential? Do you expect to incorporate iCloud into Pleco for the iPhone in the much anticipated update that you have been working on? Does Siri have any significance for Pleco? Does the new iPhone 4S offer any advantages for Pleco users? Basically, I guess I'm asking what you thought of today's annoucements, and whether there was anything new (or anything that you can now talk about without violating non-disclosure agreements).

We do expect to incorporate iCloud, though it's possible we might release a partial version of the big update without it because we really want to launch our new dictionaries as soon as the last few ones have come in / gotten converted and the most critical part of the update for them is the stuff happening in the Dict tab. But no real news from Apple today on the iCloud front as far as I can tell.

Siri only affects us once they add Chinese support - I believe Nuance (whose speech engine I believe Apple is using) already has it so it's probably just a matter of some glue programming on Apple's side. There does not appear to be a developer API for it yet, but if it's accessible as a speech input method from the keyboard then even without an API I imagine it should be usable for Chinese input. Text-to-speech we don't care about since we've already licensed a really nice offline library for that.

The two main 4S advantages are the nicer camera (better in low light and supposedly has a macro lens) and the dual-core processor, both of which help for OCR. May make the rest of the app snappier too, but the main place you'll notice it is in faster OCR framerates.

Is it fair to hope that your attention will now shift back to the iPhone far awhile, after the development of the Android version?

Most definitely, and the iPad as well - we're really looking forward to finally getting the entire interface aggressively tablet-optimized (no more giant fullscreen windows that don't need to be giant fullscreen windows). Though iOS development hasn't been at a standstill even with all of the Android stuff - UI work is progressing nicely, merged multi-dict search is working very well in our development builds, and also in the search department we've managed some fancy multithreading trickery that makes searches in general feel a lot "snappier" - much less of a wait between pressing a key and seeing the results update.

 

[dcarpent]

Thanks, Mike. The speed and detail with which you reply to your users never ceases to amaze me!

Like a lot of other folks I am very much looking forward to the new dictionaries, so I would support getting those out prior to doing the iCloud work, though I am also very much looking forward to some efficient way of keeping my flashcards on my iPhone in sync with those on my iPad. I just hope your suppliers of the dictionaries don't keep you in limbo too long. Seems like you have already been waiting on them for a while.

Good news on future refinements of Pleco for iPad as well. I use both routinely and look forward to "iPad friendly" features.

 

[dcarpent]

Now that iOS5 is out I've updated my iPad and enabled iCloud, and iCloud proceeded to back up my apps, including Pleco. My question is what will happen when I update my iPhone to iOS5 and enable iCloud on it. I assume it will back up Pleco as well, but this time with the Pleco on my iPhone, i.e., with flashcards and a user dictionary that are DIFFERENT from what I have on my iPad. Do you know what the result will be? Will both sets of data be merged and both sets pushed to both my iPad and my iPhone? I don't want to update my iPhone until I know what is going to happen. If it simply overwrites one version of Pleco with another, and then pushes the most recent version back to BOTH devices, it seems that I could lose data. Any insight on this?

 

[Vzzzbx]

There's an extra problem here. The iCloud backup service tries to suck all Pleco's purchased modules into the online backup. On my device, that's close to 500 MB because it includes the audio files.

An obvious solution would be to stick the re-downloadable modules somewhere else, but according to Marco Arment's blog you can only store stuff like that in:

a) <Application_Home>/Documents (which I assume is where they live now, and is hoovered by the iCloud backup), or

b) either <Application_Home>/Library/Caches or <Application_Home>/tmp (both of which are spontaneously emptied by the iOS5 when the device runs out of storage space)

The former is discouraged by Apple and the latter is ridiculous. There is no third option.

If I understand all this correctly, you guys have got one hell of an uphill battle sorting this out. Good luck.

(Sorry dcarpent, I don't mean to steamroll your question! I'm keen to know the answer to that as well.)

 

[dcarpent]

After exploring iOS5 a bit it turns out that you can turn off the backup to iCloud feature selectively, so perhaps the solution for now is simply to turn off the backup of Pleco (and most other apps). It became clear very quickly that iCloud backup makes sense only for things like contacts, photos, frequently changed documents, etc. and not the entire content of your iPad (or iPhone), which can easily exceed the 5GB limit of space on iCloud (unless you pay extra for extra space). A full backup of most devices would probably earn Apple a tidy sum in storage charges. Maybe that why the new iPhone 4S has a 64GB version. Backing up up 60 or so GB, i.e., paying to backup 55GB, would get pretty expensive (or pretty lucrative, from Apple's point of view).

 

[Vzzzbx]

I imagine it would, yeah.

The problem with turning off Pleco backups to iCloud is that Pleco would then not be backed up at all. If you elect to switch to iCloud for your backups, you can't backup to your local iTunes anymore.

 

[mikelove]

Now that iOS5 is out I've updated my iPad and enabled iCloud, and iCloud proceeded to back up my apps, including Pleco. My question is what will happen when I update my iPhone to iOS5 and enable iCloud on it. I assume it will back up Pleco as well, but this time with the Pleco on my iPhone, i.e., with flashcards and a user dictionary that are DIFFERENT from what I have on my iPad. Do you know what the result will be? Will both sets of data be merged and both sets pushed to both my iPad and my iPhone? I don't want to update my iPhone until I know what is going to happen. If it simply overwrites one version of Pleco with another, and then pushes the most recent version back to BOTH devices, it seems that I could lose data. Any insight on this?

I believe each of your devices gets its own backup area - files are only shared between devices if developers specifically set things up to work that way, and until we do that, you'll have one flashcard database backup from one device and another from another device.

There's an extra problem here. The iCloud backup service tries to suck all Pleco's purchased modules into the online backup. On my device, that's close to 500 MB because it includes the audio files.

That's been fixed in the just-submitted 2.2.8 update; in the meantime, you can simply disable Pleco backups through Settings / iCloud / Storage & Backup / Manage Storage / (your device) / Backup Options (turn off Pleco).

An obvious solution would be to stick the re-downloadable modules somewhere else, but according to Marco Arment's blog you can only store stuff like that in:

a) <Application_Home>/Documents (which I assume is where they live now, and is hoovered by the iCloud backup), or

b) either <Application_Home>/Library/Caches or <Application_Home>/tmp (both of which are spontaneously emptied by the iOS5 when the device runs out of storage space)

<Application_Home>/Library/Caches is the officially Apple-recommended location, and the one we've used in 2.2.8 - if too many files get obliterated we can always add an option to keep the files in /Documents anyway, but we haven't seen any file deletions so far and I'm inclined to think that Apple will get rid of that spontaneous-emptying behavior in 5.0.1 anyway.

After exploring iOS5 a bit it turns out that you can turn off the backup to iCloud feature selectively, so perhaps the solution for now is simply to turn off the backup of Pleco (and most other apps). It became clear very quickly that iCloud backup makes sense only for things like contacts, photos, frequently changed documents, etc. and not the entire content of your iPad (or iPhone), which can easily exceed the 5GB limit of space on iCloud (unless you pay extra for extra space). A full backup of most devices would probably earn Apple a tidy sum in storage charges. Maybe that why the new iPhone 4S has a 64GB version. Backing up up 60 or so GB, i.e., paying to backup 55GB, would get pretty expensive (or pretty lucrative, from Apple's point of view).

As Vzzzbx says, that's problematic because then you don't get any backups at all; having flashcard / user dictionary database backed up is extremely important so we can't afford to lose that option. Since it's easy to back up Pleco add-on databases on a desktop, and reinstall them via iTunes over USB (even if your device is set up to back up to iCloud), we think people should be reasonably well protected even with the module data files now in /Library/Caches.

 

[Vzzzbx]

we haven't seen any file deletions so far and I'm inclined to think that Apple will get rid of that spontaneous-emptying behavior in 5.0.1 anyway.

Okay, thanks for following up. I'll keep my fingers crossed – the current situation seems unworkable to me (not just for Pleco!).

 

[Vzzzbx]

Apologies for jumping in so early on this. I installed 2.2.8 and my iCloud backup isn't shrinking – it still reports a 489 MB backup slab. This applies to both my iPhone and iPad. Do we need to flip a switch somewhere for the add-ons to be moved?

 

[mikelove]

Apologies for jumping in so early on this. I installed 2.2.8 and my iCloud backup isn't shrinking – it still reports a 489 MB backup slab. This applies to both my iPhone and iPad. Do we need to flip a switch somewhere for the add-ons to be moved?

Have you launched Pleco since the update? It moves the files the first time you run it. It can take a little while to refresh, also - try going into your iCloud settings and telling it to back up now, or if that doesn't help, turn the backup of Pleco off, back up, then turn the Pleco backup back on.

 

[Vzzzbx]

I did relaunch Pleco, and then I forced an iCloud backup, and the backed up size hadn't changed.

I'm in no rush and am happy to wait a while, I just thought I should mention it in case it turns out to be a bug. Thanks for the quick response, Mike.

 

[mikelove]

I did relaunch Pleco, and then I forced an iCloud backup, and the backed up size hadn't changed.

I'm in no rush and am happy to wait a while, I just thought I should mention it in case it turns out to be a bug. Thanks for the quick response, Mike.

We tested it quite a bit and we're pretty sure it works, but it can take a while to update. Did you try disabling backups of Pleco, backing up, then enabling them again? You can do that via "Storage & Backup" / "Manage Storage."

 

[Vzzzbx]

I just did exactly that (as per your suggestion) and it worked on both the iPhone and the iPad. Down from 489 MB to 2 MB!

 

[alanmd]

Worked for me too, but the iCloud backup step wasn't needed. I flipped the 'backup Pleco' switch on and off, went back to the 'Manage Storage' screen, and my backup size was 580MB smaller!

This is a great update- all apps need to do this. It is really pointless to fill iCloud with re-downloadable data, the backups should be reserved for user data. Even iBooks hadn't implemented this yet!

 

[petrarch1603]

Wow I just downloaded the app update and when I used my phone again, pleco wasn't there anymore. I reselected it and updated my phone again. Pleco is back on there, but its like its a fresh install. All my flashcards are gone.

 

[mikelove]

Wow I just downloaded the app update and when I used my phone again, pleco wasn't there anymore. I reselected it and updated my phone again. Pleco is back on there, but its like its a fresh install. All my flashcards are gone.

Sounds like an iTunes account authorization issue; there's not really any way for an app to delete itself. Did you update the app on your phone or on your computer? Did you create a new iTunes account when you updated to OS 5?

 

[shanghailaowai]

Hi petrarch and mike:

I just had the same problem as petrarch did. I downloaded new updates for new apps in itunes, then had my iphone sync. When I looked at the phone, though, several apps were missing, including pleco. I plugged the phone back into the computer and downloaded pleco and a few important apps. When I opened pleco, i got some kind of "congratulations, you've just installed pleco!" message. And my flashcards were all gone!

It's kind of a nightmare, since I've probably spent a total of at least 10 hours typing the words i jot down in class into the phone and making flashcards.

My phone was quite full, so I wonder if i was over my quota. Maybe itunes reacted by not loading some of my apps after the sync, including pleco...

Please help, if possible.

I do have a backup of my iphone on my computer from 2 months ago. And my phone has a 5gb icloud backup, but i'm not sure how that works, to be honest--i have it set to backup regularly, so i wonder if my flaschcard backup in the icloud (if there ever was such a thing) has been overwritten.

I may try a whole-iphone backup, using the old backup saved on my computer, but is there an easier solution?

Any help would be appreciated! I doubt I'm the only one with this problem, although I haven't found a thread that talks about this.

Thanks

 

[mikelove]

I just had the same problem as petrarch did. I downloaded new updates for new apps in itunes, then had my iphone sync. When I looked at the phone, though, several apps were missing, including pleco. I plugged the phone back into the computer and downloaded pleco and a few important apps. When I opened pleco, i got some kind of "congratulations, you've just installed pleco!" message. And my flashcards were all gone!

That does sound like another iTunes issue, yes. Very sorry about that.

It's kind of a nightmare, since I've probably spent a total of at least 10 hours typing the words i jot down in class into the phone and making flashcards.

My phone was quite full, so I wonder if i was over my quota. Maybe itunes reacted by not loading some of my apps after the sync, including pleco...

I've never seen that behavior before, but I suppose it's possible. Or is there any chance you might have changed the settings in iTunes for which apps get synced to your phone?

Please help, if possible.

I do have a backup of my iphone on my computer from 2 months ago. And my phone has a 5gb icloud backup, but i'm not sure how that works, to be honest--i have it set to backup regularly, so i wonder if my flaschcard backup in the icloud (if there ever was such a thing) has been overwritten.

I may try a whole-iphone backup, using the old backup saved on my computer, but is there an easier solution?

You actually might be able to find your Pleco flashcard database backup on your computer without having to restore the whole thing. Are you on Windows or Mac? On Windows your backup folder is at:

C:\Users\(your username)\AppData\Roaming\Apple Computer\MobileSync\Backup (AppData may be hidden, turn on "Show hidden files and folders" to find it)

On Mac it's at:

/Users/(your username)/Library/Application Support/MobileSync/Backup

There may be more than one folder in there - you want the most recent.

Check every file in that folder that's between 100KB-5MB or so by opening it up in a text editor, or a hex editor, and looking to see if the file begins with the text "SQLite Format 3" - if it does, scroll down farther in the file and see if there are any references to Pleco. If there are, it's probably your flashcard file - rename it to "PlecoFlash.pqb" and restore it from backup per the instructions at http://pleco.com/ipmanual/flash.html#restore.

 

[rhenish]

This is somewhat related, and thought mike's response would be of interest to all:

Mike wrote:

I believe each of your devices gets its own backup area - files are only shared between devices if developers specifically set things up to work that way, and until we do that, you'll have one flashcard database backup from one device and another from another device.

Does this mean that you are planning to enable syncing flashcards (and, presumably, dicts) between devices? I have an iPhone and iPad and like to have the same flashcards/settings/dicts on both devices, but it is a bit of a chore to keep doing this manually.

Cheers,

David