Poll: Beta 7 Status

[mikelove]

Thanks, I didn't realize things had improved that significantly. I'm hoping Beta 8 fixes enough of the remaining crashing issues on Palm that we can have a 2.0 release on Palm without any reservations / maybe-you-shouldn'ts, but I do think we have to be ready to draw a line at some point schedule-wise.

With the "Can't move open DB" error, this is so obscure that I couldn't find any reference to it on Google or in the Palm developer forum, but looking at the Palm OS source code it appears to have something to do with application launching - what third-party applications are you running on your E2? CJKOS? Any background MP3 players / hacks / other utilities? Something that might respond to power events, like a power-on screen (is your Palm set up to require a passcode when it's turned on)? Have you configured any custom button commands in Pleco? NULL handle errors are usually an out-of-memory problem, so on that it appears that the database cache may have been filled up - where are your flashcard databases stored? Any Pleco databases other than the bare minimum (application + HWR) in internal memory? How much free storage memory do you have?

(sorry for all of the questions but we haven't seen this one on an E2 here yet)

 

[tianma81]

Hi Mike,
I haven't downloaded recently, but I'm going to side with TianLi on this one. You'd be well off to have the help pages (little 'i's on the corner screen) and the manual worked out ASAP. Because you're interface is amazing and extremely powerful, but people are calling it "unusable" because they can't figure it out. I got it, but with some difficulty, and I do music programing myself. Things like needing to hit the "refresh" button when changing filter functions; I spent a while on that one wondering why I wasn't immediately seeing results. Taping the help corner would eliminate a lot of the frustration that you don't need. And on-screen help is so much better than manuals, because unfortunately people never read the manual!

 

[radioman]

I still stand behind my previous note, but just crashed again when making a custom flashcard and pressing 入 for Hanzi input. This is very repeatable, just did it 3 times in a row. Comes up with a simple "Fatal Alert - Fatal Exception". I had not exercised this functionality before.

With regard to your questions.
- No fancy power handling, no passwords, and I increased the timeout to 3 minutes (maximum) before auto shutoff.
- Flashcards go to hidden memory. (I thought this was required for Beta 7(a).
- Custom buttons are programmed for flashcard handling only.
- I utilize a 1Gb external card, and have 136Mb free. On the device, it tells me I have 8608k free.
- Apps - I have a number of them. But actually the files on the device are a bit of a mess organizationally. I am going through that now.

As far as databases or applications, is there a way to tell version 1 from version 2 databases apart? Creator name? I am looking at a number of Pleco files that I believe are version 1 that are resident in the actual Palm memory. How many Pleco version 2 files physically need to reside on the device? If you give me exact names, I can move anything else over to the card and run it that way.

Thanks, I didn't realize things had improved that significantly. I'm hoping Beta 8 fixes enough of the remaining crashing issues on Palm that we can have a 2.0 release on Palm without any reservations / maybe-you-shouldn'ts, but I do think we have to be ready to draw a line at some point schedule-wise.

With the "Can't move open DB" error, this is so obscure that I couldn't find any reference to it on Google or in the Palm developer forum, but looking at the Palm OS source code it appears to have something to do with application launching - what third-party applications are you running on your E2? CJKOS? Any background MP3 players / hacks / other utilities? Something that might respond to power events, like a power-on screen (is your Palm set up to require a passcode when it's turned on)? Have you configured any custom button commands in Pleco? NULL handle errors are usually an out-of-memory problem, so on that it appears that the database cache may have been filled up - where are your flashcard databases stored? Any Pleco databases other than the bare minimum (application + HWR) in internal memory? How much free storage memory do you have?

(sorry for all of the questions but we haven't seen this one on an E2 here yet)

 

[ipsi]

As a quick check, most of the files should be under the creator name PLEN for 2.0 and PLDE for 1.0. Assuming you have your flashcards in the 'hidden' volume, you should have the following (at most):

Pleco 2 (PLEN)
Pleco HWR Database (PLEN)
Pleco Reader Bookmarks (PLEN)
Pleco Converter (PLFS)
Pleco Mover (PLWR)

Under the 'hidden' system, you should have
PlecoFlash.pqb
PlecoCUser(....).pqb
PlecoEUser(....).pqb

The (....) in the last two above just indicates that there's some random numbers in there. Not sure if the PlecoEUser one actually exists, but you should have PlecoFlash.pqb at the very least.

Of those, both Pleco Converter and Pleco Mover can, I believe, go the storage card (correct, Mike?)

 

[mikelove]

tianma81 - we're scrambling to try to get the manuals / help done for Beta 8, but in the meantime the DocuWiki (though not embedded in the software) is a good reference for a lot of this stuff, particularly things like confusing flashcard options. But yes, there definitely needs to be help available with that 'i' button (on Palm) or the Help Start menu command (on WM, which actually had no built-in help system at all in 1.0 embarrassingly enough).

radioman - those other applications could definitely be key here, particularly given The Duelist's recent report of conflicts with HWPen. Are you using CJKOS / Input Field Compatibility Mode? That might have something to do with the recognizer crash. The creator code for 2.0 files is "PLEN" and for 1.0 files it's "PLDE" so that's an easy way to tell them apart - the only two 2.0 files that need to be on the device are the Pleco 2 application file (type code "appl") and Pleco HWR Database (type code "JFHK").

The flashcard database would be in that hidden internal drive, though absent a hardware problem it's unlikely moving it to an SD card would make any difference, since they're accessed using the same programming interface and have the same impact on memory usage.

(and yes, per ipsi's post PlecoMover and PlecoConverter can be run from the storage card)

 

[The Duelist]

PD2 Now Stable For Me

I'm Still Using Pleco1.

Much As I'd Like To Be Using All The Cool New Functions Of PD2,
I'm Having Major Stability Issues With Pleco2.
Pleco2 Keeps Crashing Just Navigating Between Many The New Functions.

Most Of The Functionality Generally Works,
But Switching Between Functions Always Eventually Ends Up In a Crash
ie After Every 4-5 Operations

8) PD2 Is Now Stable On My Palm T5 :!:

Finally, I Can Stop Using PD1 :cry: :? :lol:

 

[radioman]

OK, so the unit still comes up with the crashes I describe.

And on the Palm internal memory there is all sorts of programs that came with the unit baked into ROM and other stuff. Powerdigi, etc., so I have no idea what might be causing the problem.

So I want to do the following.

1) Put a fresh version of Pleco 2 on the a new flashcard - Nothing else on that card except the keyfile as well as fileZ
2) copy from internal ram the exact flashcard database (please give me the exact name of that file, I believe it is in internal memory)
3) pull the flashcard
4) Hard Reset the unit.
5) put the flashcard back in.
4) Move whatever files (Pleco and the HWR file and key) to internal.
5) Run the program.

If I follow these steps, should the install work? I am not clear if hotsync does some other gyrations with regard to file installation. My intention is to NOT use hot sync.

 

[hairyleprechaun]

Experimental Beta 7 stability-fix release has ironed out most of my issues. Still a little buggy though. Particularly after not using Pleco for a while, when tap on the language icon to switch languages pleco hangs for a few seconds. Additionally, even with the preference set to "Always search dicts in order", and in manage dicts, moving the dicts around to the order I want, my searches still don't happen in order.

Let me know if I need to supply additional info.

Besides these issues, Pleco 7 is working much better for me, and I start to get the sense that it is nearly complete.

Thanks for the dict, and Keep up the great work Mike!

 

[mikelove]

radioman - are you sure those programs are built into the ROM? The ROM on the E2 isn't re-flashable, so it shouldn't have anything but the factory-supplied Palm apps on it, i.e. the basic Palm ones plus RealPlayer. If you've got a bunch of stuff running in the background that could very easily explain the crashes you've been having, all of those things take up valuable cache memory.

The procedure you've outlined makes sense - in step 2, the flashcard database is stored in your Palm's hidden internal flash memory, so the easiest way to copy it to a memory card is with the PlecoMover utility; you can also use FileZ if you enable support for hidden volumes in its preferences screen, in which case you'd be looking for a file called PlecoFlash.pqb (for user dictionaries it's PlecoCUser/PlecoEUser followed by some random letters/numbers).

You can prevent HotSync from restoring previously backed-up files by going into your Palm Desktop user folder (My Computer, C, Program Files, Palm, (your name)) and renaming "Backup" to "Old Backup" or something along those lines.

hairyleprechaun - that hang isn't something we can do much about, unfortunately. Windows Mobile automatically closes files opened from a memory card when your system goes to sleep / standby mode (i.e. when it's turned off), so Pleco has to reopen them if it finds they've been closed, and that can take a few seconds while Pleco's waiting for the system to re-mount the memory card / reload the files.

Not sure why the dictionaries aren't being searched in order - that preference seems to be a little buggy in general at the moment.

 

[radioman]

Some of the programs are built in, some are not. I do not feel like sifting through what is what at this point as there are dozens of files.

OK on the file handling procedure. Can I leave the flashcards on the datacard? And operate on them from there? or do they have to be on internal. What do you recommend at this point?

radioman - are you sure those programs are built into the ROM? The ROM on the E2 isn't re-flashable, so it shouldn't have anything but the factory-supplied Palm apps on it, i.e. the basic Palm ones plus RealPlayer. If you've got a bunch of stuff running in the background that could very easily explain the crashes you've been having, all of those things take up valuable cache memory.

 

[hairyleprechaun]

Hello Mike,

Fair enough. We can't expect you to fix all of CE's problems.

BTW the 1st section of the draft of the 2.0 manual is looking great. While most of them are obvious, I hope to eventually see some explanations under some of the individual preferences settings as to what the benefits are for choosing that preference, or what the preference is geared for.

Darrol

 

[mikelove]

radioman - OK, but could you at least provide a list of the icons you see in the program launcher screen? We can figure out which ones are built-in and which ones aren't ourselves, but if we don't know what applications you've installed it's unlikely we can reproduce your problems (since we're not seeing them on an E2 here) and therefore unlikely we can fix them. Though hopefully they'll be cleared up by the reset...

The flashcards should work fine from the SD card, though they'll likely be a bit faster if they're in internal memory (since that's installed directly on the Palm's motherboard and hence can be accessed faster than memory on a card)

hairyleprechaun - thanks! And yes, the preferences section of the finished reference manual should include some more detailed info about why you'd want to use each preference.

 

[radioman]

Sure,

I think I have a good idea what those programs are, but the bigger issue I see is that there are a number of programs that I added and deleted over time, and there are remnants of programs all over the place. That's why I want to move to just start over. The only reason I have this machine is for Pleco.

With regard to the program icons screen, I have:

Bluetooth
Calc
Calendar
Card Info
Card Reader (I recently added)
Contacts
Dialer
Expense
Favorites
Filez (I added)
Hotsync
Launcher X (I added)
Media
Memos
Note Pad
Pleco (added)
Power DiGi (I added due to the bad digitizer).
Prefs
RealPlayer
Tasks
WorldClock


If I then go to the card, it provides the following list

Launcher X (added)
PlecoCVvt (added)
PlecoMover (added)

###

radioman - OK, but could you at least provide a list of the icons you see in the program launcher screen? We can figure out which ones are built-in and which ones aren't ourselves, but if we don't know what applications you've installed it's unlikely we can reproduce your problems (since we're not seeing them on an E2 here) and therefore unlikely we can fix them. Though hopefully they'll be cleared up by the reset...

 

[mikelove]

OK, thanks. I think our recommendation for E2 owners in general is going to be that they not try to use their Palm for much of anything besides Pleco - as a dedicated Pleco machine the E2 should work fine, an E2 with nothing on it is going to have at least as much free database cache memory as a Treo/TX with lots of stuff on it, but for people trying to do a lot of non-Pleco things with their PDAs a different model would probably make more sense.

(I finally removed the E2 from our hardware recommendations page after yesterday's testing, should probably take away most of the used-model references too)

 

[radioman]

Mike,

Even after the hard reset, I continue to get the occasional crashes I highlighted previously: turning off the power button resulting in the dB Move crash; making a personal flashcard and trying to add Hanzi, etc. Maybe its my hardware, I do not know.

I will keep using Beta 7 and just deal with the challenges. If I run into anything wildly useful insights for you I will pass it along.

OK, thanks. I think our recommendation for E2 owners in general is going to be that they not try to use their Palm for much of anything besides Pleco - as a dedicated Pleco machine the E2 should work fine, an E2 with nothing on it is going to have at least as much free database cache memory as a Treo/TX with lots of stuff on it, but for people trying to do a lot of non-Pleco things with their PDAs a different model would probably make more sense.

(I finally removed the E2 from our hardware recommendations page after yesterday's testing, should probably take away most of the used-model references too)

 

[mikelove]

OK. Haven't seen that even once here, oddly enough, and I still can't find it on Google... has anyone else ever seen a "Can't Move Open DB" error?

 

[mikelove]

radioman - we finally managed to reproduce the Can't Move Open DB error here - it looks like it has something to do with the command bar Instant Access icon. If you disable the Instant Access from Command Bar option, soft reset your Palm, and then use FileZ to delete the file "Pleco2CommandBarBitmap," does that stop those errors from reappearing?

For the NULL Handle issue, we've added a more intelligent error message (to make it clear that it's an out-of-memory problem, if it is) and now also automatically detect whether Pleco is running on a Tungsten E2 and cut the database cache usage in half if it is (might cause a minor slowdown but should improve stability significantly), so hopefully between that and some tweaks to the command bar we can get your remaining crashing issues fixed.

 

[radioman]

Fascinating. First, Many thanks for the support.

OK, well as you recall, I reset everything anew, was still having issues. But today, I am into hour number 6 of running flashcards, dictionary look-ups, etc. I have not seen any crashes today yet - mind you, this has NEVER happened under version 2 (no crashes... that is...). The DB proble is a major headache, as it usually shows up when the unit is powered down physically or automatically.

I went to the external menu and unchecked the "instant access from command bar", soft reset, and and used fileZ to look for the file. On the palm itself I see a Pleco2CommandBar, 3K in size. Is that what you are referring to that I should delete? Not seeing anything else that looks like the file you are talking about.

If I have the feature unchecked in external preferences, is it mandatory to delete the bitmap? Or is it precautionary?

By the way, FYI reinstalled "Digifix". Without it, the digitizer is a total mess.

###

radioman - we finally managed to reproduce the Can't Move Open DB error here - it looks like it has something to do with the command bar Instant Access icon. If you disable the Instant Access from Command Bar option, soft reset your Palm, and then use FileZ to delete the file "Pleco2CommandBarBitmap," does that stop those errors from reappearing?

For the NULL Handle issue, we've added a more intelligent error message (to make it clear that it's an out-of-memory problem, if it is) and now also automatically detect whether Pleco is running on a Tungsten E2 and cut the database cache usage in half if it is (might cause a minor slowdown but should improve stability significantly), so hopefully between that and some tweaks to the command bar we can get your remaining crashing issues fixed.

 

[mikelove]

Yes, you should delete that Pleco2CommandBar file - even if the option is unchecked there's still a small potential that it might still cause some problems. (it will be recreated automatically if you ever re-enable that feature, don't worry)