Poll: WM -> Android?

[mikelove]

Very simple question which I thought I'd ask here, for those of you still using Pleco on Windows Mobile.

If Pleco were to successfully develop a full-featured product for Android, and if we were able to transfer most of your old purchases from Palm/WM to Android, would you still be interested in / still expect continuing updates and improvements to our Windows Mobile software, or would you happily switch to the Android version (or the iPhone / iPod / iPad version) at that point?

(bear in mind that our WM software will not work on Windows Phone 7 - in fact, porting it to WP7 would likely be more work than porting it to Android)

 

[HW60]

...for those of you still using Pleco on Windows Mobile.

That sounds a little bit like talking to a species that is close to extinction.
I like installing freeware on my WM device (HTC Touch HD) - Pleco is the only software I paid for, and I do not like app stores with all the constraints. I will not buy a new device the next 2 or 3 years and would prefer to get updates and improvements for Pleco WM in the meantime. 2 or 3 years later I can take a new decision, and I will surely buy a device that runs Pleco and allows installing software by myself. That leads to a "yes" for the next years to come and a "don't know" afterwards.

 

[mfcb]

...That leads to a "yes" for the next years to come and a "don't know" afterwards...

i am absolutely the same opinion as HW60 (not only with the quoted main point)

 

[sfrrr]

I've used Windows Mobile (or whatever it was called back then) since before it was released and I've been about as loyal a user as is possible. But I'm switching to Android as soon as the Dell Streak comes out because Windows Mobile 7 (or whatever they call it) doesn't work with most of the programs I consider important--including Pleco. Since there's no Pleco for Android, I'll still use my iPAQ 211 for Chinese until it (the iPAQ) breaks. If/when it does break, if Pleco is no longer supporting WM and has no Android version, I'll buy myself a cheap used iPhone and use the Apple version for Pleco (and probably nothing else--don't really like the way the iPhone works). So, if you develop for Android, I won't need a WM version anymore.

 

[thph2006]

...for those of you still using Pleco on Windows Mobile...

I'm curious, your phrasing sounds like most of your WM customers have moved to iPhone. Is that the case?

For me the answer to your question is no. I'm done paying for mobile platform/carrier specific apps. If my need is critical enough to spend real money on (like the $100 for Pleco) I'll buy the best app I can find for Windows 7 desktop and just run it on one of the W7 tablet/hand-held devices coming out in the future giving me long-term investment protection. What I won't do again is invest in an application where there's a likelihood support for my platform will be dropped because of the ever-changing state of the mobile phone market, especially when it forces me to choose both a new hardware vendor and potentially lock into an undesirable wireless carrier. At least on Windows I know my app will work essentially forever.

 

[mikelove]

HW60 wrote:
...That leads to a "yes" for the next years to come and a "don't know" afterwards...
i am absolutely the same opinion as HW60 (not only with the quoted main point)

Understood. It shouldn't be too difficult for us to keep porting cross-platform engine improvements to WM at least, the main problem is in investing development resources specifically in WM for things like touch-friendly UI redesign - it's already almost impossible to buy a new non-phone WM handheld, and with Windows Phone 7 just around the corner I suspect within a year you'll no longer be easily able to find a Windows Mobile phone either - the HD Mini appears to have been HTC's final WM device.

But thankfully, this isn't like wasting a year putting Pleco 2.0 on Palm OS, the improvements are a lot more minor and less time-consuming, and programming-wise while the UI may feel kind of backwards the underlying capabilities of WM devices are still pretty comparable to those of iPhone / Android devices (and hence easier to keep supporting). And there's always the chance that Windows Phone 7 may turn out to be capable of running Windows Mobile apps with a straightforward ROM hack - it's still based on WinCE after all - in which case there could be a considerable uptick in interest in our WM software again.

If/when it does break, if Pleco is no longer supporting WM and has no Android version, I'll buy myself a cheap used iPhone and use the Apple version for Pleco (and probably nothing else--don't really like the way the iPhone works).

Thanks, though while flattering, the willingness of Android users to buy iPods just to run Pleco actually diminishes the argument for developing an Android version

I'm curious, your phrasing sounds like most of your WM customers have moved to iPhone. Is that the case?

Pretty much - the rate of WM/Palm-to-iPhone transfers remains fairly steady, and we saw a big drop in WM sales in Q2 along with a big(ger) gain in iPhone sales; we think that may have had something to do with introducing flashcards on iPhone, at which point that officially became the version to get for people buying new hardware to run Pleco.

I'm done paying for mobile platform/carrier specific apps. If my need is critical enough to spend real money on (like the $100 for Pleco) I'll buy the best app I can find for Windows 7 desktop and just run it on one of the W7 tablet/hand-held devices coming out in the future giving me long-term investment protection. What I won't do again is invest in an application where there's a likelihood support for my platform will be dropped because of the ever-changing state of the mobile phone market, especially when it forces me to choose both a new hardware vendor and potentially lock into an undesirable wireless carrier. At least on Windows I know my app will work essentially forever.

I certainly understand your frustration - it's 10x worse on this end, I'd much much rather have spent the last year-and-a-half working on adding features on WM than rewriting the same darn program again for a different platform (or possibly two). Investing $100 in an application that might drop support for your platform is bad, investing several orders of magnitude more money than that in developing an application for a platform whose manufacturer drops support for it is even worse. (as happened on both Palm and WM about a year apart, though at least Palm had the decency to make some attempt at backwards-compatibility - Microsoft just plain screwed us, which is why I found myself feeling a bit of schadenfreude when the Kin turned into the latest iteration of Microsoft Bob)

We try to make it a bit easier on our customers by allowing free platform transfers whenever we can (though it does complicate matters somewhat on the business end) but we're very much hoping that the market will finally stabilize soon so that we can stop having to chase the latest mobile platforms and just focus all of our energies on making our software better.

 

[wayfarer]

I, for one, would absolutely love to see an android version. I've used Pleco on Windows Mobile, Palm and iPod Touch and so far I have been really disappointed with the iPod. It's not the Pleco software - it's the iPod. The device is overall very poorly suited for Chinese. For note-taking, and other word processing, it's simply tedious. The handwriting recognition is difficult to use without the precision of a stylus and the pinyin input is atrocious. Compound that with Apple's overall restrictive nature (lack of software options/customization, no bluetooth keyboard, no devices with hardware keyboard, etc) and the iphone/ipod is just an unattractive device. It's a real shame because the thing has a great screen for websurfing, watching videos, and the like.

I look forward to using a more modern phone, but until something more China friendly comes out, I'm sticking with my Palm Centro for getting around. The pinyin input on Palm devices is fantastic - it's a shame they are going extinct.

So now it seems Android is the best platform out there, the biggest hitch is no Plecodict! (yet?)

 

[mikelove]

I, for one, would absolutely love to see an android version. I've used Pleco on Windows Mobile, Palm and iPod Touch and so far I have been really disappointed with the iPod. It's not the Pleco software - it's the iPod. The device is overall very poorly suited for Chinese. For note-taking, and other word processing, it's simply tedious. The handwriting recognition is difficult to use without the precision of a stylus and the pinyin input is atrocious. Compound that with Apple's overall restrictive nature (lack of software options/customization, no bluetooth keyboard, no devices with hardware keyboard, etc) and the iphone/ipod is just an unattractive device. It's a real shame because the thing has a great screen for websurfing, watching videos, and the like.

Thanks for the feedback, but the handwriting situation wouldn't be any better on Android - in fact it would probably be worse, since at least according to some widely-publicised tests the iPhone's digitizer is a good bit more accurate than those of HTC and Motorola phones. Android phones use capacitive touchscreens just like iPhones - the market seems to be moving in that direction in spite of its effects on handwriting input - so you're left using your finger on either OS.

Have you tried the Pleco fullscreen handwriting recognizer yet, or have you just been using the free built-in one on the iPod? Most people seem to be very happy with the accuracy of our handwriting input at least. Though if there's something in particular that bothers you about it we'd certainly like to know (both for our iPhone version and for a potential Android version that would use the same UI).

And FWIW, iOS 4 does support Bluetooth keyboards, and if you jailbreak your iPod (generally easier than rooting an Android device) you can install all sorts of other Pinyin input systems / un-approved apps / hacks / etc.

All of that doesn't mean we shouldn't do an Android version - customers want what they want, and certainly for some users the advantages of Android seem to outweigh the disadvantages - but even if we do do an Android version, our flagship OS / recommended OS for running Pleco will likely continue to be iPhone.

 

[jleeyap]

I was wondering if a version of pleco which was written for android would work on any of the ebook readers that are coming out running android software now. I think some of them have a touchscreen also.

It would be great to be able to pull up a chinese book and touch on the words and have popup definitions come up on the screen. I find that the ipod touch screen a little small (in fact prefer the screen on my Tungsten TX for reading) and don't want to shell big bucks for an iPad, but I suspect there will be many more choices in the 5-6 inch screen range for ebook readers that will run android. I don't know if android OS for mobile phones and android for ebook readers are the same creature or would there be any other limitations with processors or memory that would prevent ebook readers from running pleco. Thanks.

 

[mikelove]

I was wondering if a version of pleco which was written for android would work on any of the ebook readers that are coming out running android software now. I think some of them have a touchscreen also.

Not sure - it's unlikely we'd actually test / optimize around any of them, at least not initially, but Android interfaces scale up fairly easily, so a putative Pleco for Android certainly might be usable on some of them. Single-color-LCD-screen readers would likely be a better bet than dual-screen readers like the Nook, though, or purely e-ink ones like the (non-Android-based) Kindle.

 

[Shadowdh]

TBH if I could get an android version of Pleco I would probably try android out... I dont like the smugness and totalitarianism of apple so will probably never get an iphone but if they port android to the hd2 I would consider trying it out to see how it works... but I picked WM in the poll as thats what I will be using for the next couple of years at least unless android proves to be the dogs dangly bits...

BTW the hd2 is getting better and better re Pleco use as I get the practice... also the larger writing box works well even with my big fingers...

 

[mikelove]

I actually like WM better than Android myself, in spite of its faults - it's a lot easier to program for (Java continues to be the Worst Programming Language Ever as far as I'm concerned), though not as easy as iPhone, and its level of openness puts even Android's to shame. At the same time, though, the iPhone version of Pleco is currently outselling the Windows Mobile version by about 7:1 - it was hovering around 3:1 before the flashcard-equipped iPhone version came out, but it went into freefall after that - and we're now doing more free WM-to-iPhone transfers per month than we've ever done WM sales, so business-wise the case for WM is getting weaker and weaker.

But I'm glad the UI is proving workable - some minor finger-friendly UI tweaks should still be forthcoming with the next update (which should be coming in conjunction with the next round of low-level flashcard system improvements, probably towards the end of the year), but unless it proves extremely easy to run old WM apps on Windows Phone 7, a total UI overhaul for capacitive-screen phones like the HD2 is very unlikely.