Beta 5 Bug Report / Feedback Thread

To retrieve flash cards from Bet 4, I changed the date back one month and then Pleco beta 4 worked again. I then exported the flash cards in xml format. Next step is install beta 5 and see what happens.

thanks Mike
 

daniel123

榜眼
>Not sure why the sketch box isn't working correctly - do you see the same behavior with handwriting input or only with sketches?

it's the same problem using the sketch box and the handwriting input but I use it in a different way. In the sketch box I often write some Pinyin words and sentences and in the handwriting input I just write one Chinese character. I think for hanzi input it is o.k. but for writing Pinyin I have to write unnaturally slow and bigger not to get it completely unreadable. It seems not enough sensitive. For example the dot on the 'i' just appears when I make a slow small circle not a dot. This was very much better in PD 1.03 (just tried on another device) and on the normal Palm Notepad application also on the TX.
That's why I am wondering.

Daniel
 

sfrrr

状元
sych said:
sfrrr said:
Also, so far the audio doesn't work--is that because I just haven't found a word included in this demo version? Is it possible to use the old audio files from beta 4?
Sandra

Sandra, I'm using the Palm version, but there's almost no case I've come across where the audio doesn't say anything - either by using a recording of a multi-syllable word (e.g., 你好 is definitely present, as are lots of others) or by speaking recordings of individual syllables. So you should be getting at least *something* in almost all cases.

Can I suggest: check in preferences (under External, I think) that the "Skip words w/o multi-syll audio" option isn't turned on, and check that you've installed all the audio files in the right place (e.g. the same place as your dictionary files). Also check (in Help -> Ordering, I think) that the Audio feature is unlocked.

I had a problem with audio when I first installed, and it turns out that my audio files were corrupted when copied to my SD card because I ran out of space on the card when I was copying. To fix that I eventually had to delete and replace the files, and re-install Pleco 2 and re-apply the key file.

sych--thanks. I'm reassured now that I know I should be able to get audio to test. And, thanks again, I checked my settings and I hadn't had that skip-words feature enabled. What I haven't done yet is to reinstall the audio files. I think before I do that, I'll do some headphone experiments to see if I can detect even a hint of sound. Thanks again.

Sandra
 

sfrrr

状元
Remember when the PPC was way more trouble than the Palm? Heh heh.

I don't use the flashcards as intensively as some of you guys. Everything I've tried to do with flashcards--assigning categories, sorting for different groupings, making custom cards--has all worked beautifully. And I love the fact that I can edit a dictionary entry and then send it directly to the user dictionary. I'm in heaven.

My problems with the history are the same as most other people's: If I turn off the program or reset it, the history evaporates. The only thing I haven't seen mentioned is that when I want to use the top entry in the history (the one I used just before my current word), nothing happens. If I click on the second from most current, or the eighth..., that word pops up again in the input box. But never the top word in the dropdown list.

I sorely missed the duplicate card and card added notifications and am happy to see them working nicely again.

I can't get IA to work at all, but I'm not done trying to figure out something that will wake it up.

And I still can't get any sound, but I'm experimenting with bypassing my iPAQ 211's speaker to see if I can hear even a hint of audio.

As for your question about the input box losing focus, I don't remember whether anything else was open. I'll experiment tonight. But, you're right, I too have experienced random loss of focus in various programs. Or maybe it's not a loss, but a theft.

Sandra
 
From reading another forum, I realized that the date on my palm was not set correctly. It is now set correctly, and B5 appears to be working on my TX. I could not get the converter to work, but Mike had already converted the flashcards that I sent him a few days ago.

Import took several hours, and it did a soft reset at the end, but It looks like a lot of my flashcards are there :) not all :( One List from 1.3 had 4006 flashcards. Only 3409 flashcards in 2.0b5 were successfully imported to the category of the same name.

I get a soft reset when I pressed the "home" hardware button. Instead of exiting pleco and taking me to a list of all the applications on my palm, it does a soft reset. The same thing that happened when I tapped a software button that should have taken me to the old pleco...

I'm still having fun.
 

gato

状元
Just had a few hours with B5 so far. Quite a polished release in general.

I was prepared for a slow import, but importing over 5000 flashcards took about 10 minutes on my Palm Centro. Maybe TX is a special case?

A few comments so far:

Using Guifan Dictionary for Flashcard Definition
I haven't been able get the flashcards imported to use the Guifan dictionary for definitions. It seems to be defaulting to the ABC Dictionary no matter what I do. I have made that the dictionary being used outside the flashcard is Guifan. That on the "Dicts..." screen inside "Import Flashcards", Guifan at the top of the list. The same for the Advanced->Dicts screen. (By the way, why is "Dicts" in both Import and Advanced Settings?)

Icons in Manage Flashcards
- Using the folders w/ plus and minus icons to scroll between the flashcards is a bit confusing that icon is more typically to move between different directory levels. Up and down arrows would be more intuitive.
- By the way, will the direction pad be enabled for scrolling here?
- Using the big plus icon as the edit button is a bit less than intuitive, as well. Perhaps a "pencil" icon would be better.

Opening Screen for Flashcards
- The first screen when starting the flashcards is a bit too crowded. Perhaps Manage Profile, Manage Categories, Import, and Export can all be folded into one.

- If Profile is only meant to allow different score files to be used for different testing styles, then perhaps it can be folded into the New Flashcard Session screen. Having it on the opening screen implies that it has some effect on all the other features. Since Manage Flashcards and Manage Categories are on the same screen as the Profile selector, one could interpret it to mean that each profile has its own separate set of flashcards and categories, which would be the case if Profile were being used as User Profile. But here, Profile is really just another Test Mode, with its separate score file. All profiles are using the same set of flashcards and categories.

Reader
- The reader is quite usable now.
- Changing the up and down key pad binding so that it can be used for page scrolling rather than line scrolling would be better for reading. One can always use the stylus to point to a specific word for look up.
- "Show definition in pop-up window" is used to toggle on and off definition window. Might consider rewording this to make it more obvious.
- Would be great if for each document, the reader can remember the position in the document when it was last exited, so that it can start with that position when the document is opened up. Would save one from needing to create a bookmark when exiting a doc.
 

ipsi

状元
On the Char Info screen, in the Details tab not all available options are listed in the drop-down menus. I would love, for example, to have the Matthews number visible as one of those four fields rather than having to have a (brief) hunt through the list for it, but it's not an option right now. Is that something that's being worked on?
 

kkuguru

秀才
Some more inputs for HTC TYTN II:

1) If you have looked up a word, then add it into flashcards, then erase the word with the erase button, you can not immediately start typing to find your next word. You have to click into the input field before you start typing again. No big deal, but If you have a huge list of words to input, the extra step is annoying

2) When running multi-choice flashcard session, at the end of the session, only the correct answer showed up in the multi-choice while others 4 were blank. Makes guessing easy!

3) Some entries, for example "KuanDai" in abc dict, the definition had no chinese characters, just pinyin w/ tone marks

4) In the advanced flashcard options, the self-scored "show answers separately" option seems to automatically uncheck, meaning when I change any other option or start a new self-scored session, I have to go back into advanced and click this option.

5) When searching with multiple wildcards, Pleco takes quite a long time. At first I thought it had hung and exited out, but actually I guess was just searching through thousands of entries, so I guess I understand the time lag.

Thanks,

Ken
 

Harm

Member
Hi there,

I like the multiple choice mode of the flashcards. They are a great help study to fresh new words!

But I have a small question about it:
If you choose
Show: Headword
Ask for Pron + Defn
you have to answer the right pinyin word in order to proceed to the definition question
If you fail to choose the right pinyin, you have no chance to answer the definition.
So you will always get as a result: pinyin (good, green)

Is this intentional or a small bug? Personally, I would like to have the chance to give two answers all the time.
In this way you get no chance to learn this character better.

By the way, on a few occasions the system failed to give the five choices (cannot find a pattern here yet, maybe this happens only with words from my user dictionary in Pleco 1).
If this happens there is no way to continue with the test and simply skip this word. You have to start with a new test.

All the best!

Harm
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
sfrrr - yeah, those were the days; really the issue before was Pocket PC was that we were expecting it to do some things for us that Palm OS didn't; with Palm we've taken it upon ourselves pretty much since day 1 to develop our own versions of operating system features that Palm either doesn't do or doesn't do very well, so now that we've adopted the same approach with Pocket PC in 2.0 (rather than our earlier strategy of doing the best we could with what Microsoft gave us), the core, fundamental stuff that we can't replace like memory management / filesystem / etc have proven to be much nicer than their Palm equivalents. We'll probably be taking that approach from day 1 on iPhone and other new platforms - just because Apple doesn't offer copy-and-paste or text highlighting doesn't mean we can't.

Still working on a better system for storing history but hopefully we'll have that in place soon. (probably should just dig up how we did it in 1.0 - we basically threw out all of that code on PPC for the new version and we may have discarded a few clever ideas in between all of the haphazardly-implemented workarounds and such) With IA, if you can't get it working the normal way you could always try the look-up-text-in-clipboard option instead - just one or two extra pen strokes really, and with a whole sentence or paragraph that it can look up for you in the reader it might actually be faster that way.

Fleminator - glad it's sort-of up and running. With the missing cards, are you sure some of those weren't duplicates? When files get corrupted in SQLite it's usually more obvious, 10,000 entries down to 900 or something like that (or a table wiped out like profiles or category assignments). The cards should show up by default in the same order that they were in in 1.0 (which is actually just the order in which they were created in 2.0, but that's how the import file is sorted) - if you compare the two lists, do you see occasional missing cards or is it just a big chunk somewhere that's disappeared? Anyway an experimental better-Palm-database-system release should be out in two or three days so you can try again with that.

gato - glad it seems solid so far. Imports generally slow down the more cards you add, since it takes slightly longer to update the indexes the longer they get - the Centro might also use newer / higher-speed flash memory than some of the older models like the TX. Cards exported from 1.0 are tagged with dictionary IDs so they'll import to the same dictionaries in 2.0 - the best way to move them over to Guifan would be to use the remap command in Manage Cards' More Options screen after you import them. The reason for the two Dicts lists is that the Import one is a permanent mapping (i.e., this is the dictionary which this card is linked to) while the Dicts option in Advanced tries to dynamically remap cards to a different dictionary for a particular session, so if for example you want to try reviewing with Guifan but not move everything over to there permanently yet you can do it that way.

The plus and minus icons don't scroll between flashcards, they add and remove them to the category selected in the popup menu next to them. (should both move the highlight down) Not sure if we'll get around to adding hardware button support to that screen for 2.0. The plus icon is actually just to create new cards, to edit a card you tap the i (= card info) button and then tap the Edit Card button at the bottom of that screen. The first screen may actually be getting more crowded in the next version since we're probably adding an "Organize Flashcards" screen that looks more like the 1.0 manage one (a lot of people are unhappy with the new interface) - I think as long as there's still an extra-large button to start a new session it's probably OK, I suppose a few options like Import/Export could be folded into a separate screen but then people would have to wade through two confusingly-crowded screens to get to those options instead of just one :D Profile affects Manage Cards too, since that screen uses whatever scorefile is selected in it, and also affects Import since scores in import lists that don't specify a specific scorefile name (like the ones generated by the 1.0 converter) go to whatever scorefile is associated with the current profile, so they're a bit more than just a set of test settings.

There's an option in the Button Actions section of Preferences to use the up/down arrow buttons to scroll through pages instead of lines - we're debating whether to make that the default behavior. The definition shows up either way, that option just puts it in a separate window instead of on the main one, so I'm not sure how we can really make it clearer - something more action-oriented, like "Pop-up definition in separate window," suggests that the definition won't show up at all if it's not checked, which seems more confusing. The reader's actually supposed to remember the last position already but doesn't due to a bug.

kkuguru - thanks for identifying the specific action that causes the input field to lose the keyboard focus, sfrrr mentioned it happening occasionally before but we didn't know what exactly caused it - should be easy to fix now that we know where it's hiding. With that multi-choice issue, were the words all of an unusual length, say 5 or 6 syllables? How may cards were in the session? How many cards in total are in your flashcard file? With KuanDai, if you check the box to allow example sentences in flashcards in Preferences that should get those entries to display normally - we haven't gotten all of our data files coded up correctly for that feature yet (and may end up disabling it and punting it to a future release). Multi-wildcard searches go a lot faster with single-character wildcards than multi-character ones, but it's true they're not that fast in general - tough thing to speed up since the standard methods for wildcard-indexing text don't really work well with Chinese.

Harm - yeah, we weren't sure what to do about that aspect of multiple-choice; it seemed like if someone had already gotten the card partially wrong (and was therefore going to get it scored incorrectly) there was no point in asking them about the second part of the question when it wouldn't affect their score. Anyone else have any feelings on this one way or another? With the missing choices, it could be an issue of the lengths of words getting calculated incorrectly - that would certainly explain the user dictionary connection anyway. Are these unusually long entries, say sentence-length ones? If you go into the Advanced/Settings screen in Manage Flashcards and search for cards with length = 0, do any come up?
 

weight

举人
weight said:
"the first screen may actually be getting more crowded in the next version since we're probably adding an "Organize Flashcards" screen that looks more like the 1.0 manage one (a lot of people are unhappy with the new interface) "


Mike,

When I first saw the new flashcard interface I was hesitant at first (having gotten used to the 1.0 interface over the last couple of years), but it took me all of 10 minutes to figure out what you guys were up to. As far as a category based system is concerned I can't imagine it being any more straight forward, especially considering how powerful it is now. So I would like to vote for keeping it the way it is - do you actually intend to change it all?
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Oh well we're certainly keeping that, it's just a matter of possibly also adding an alternate interface for the sake of people who liked the old way - there are some legitimate situations where one might want to use categories more as fixed-lists-which-you-move-cards-between than as properties which you can assign to a particular card in a search result. We've seen a few people's filing systems work that way, put a new word in one list and the migrate it to another once you've learned it.

Few posts I didn't notice before: hleperlier - good thinking, hopefully they'll come through mostly-OK.

daniel123 - sounds like the smoothing algorithm we usually use for Chinese handwriting input is also being applied to that draw box - should be easy enough to turn it off.
 

sfrrr

状元
Mike--as for the flashcard interface, I too found it awkward for a few minutes. It was new to me after all. But it took me only those few minutes to see how much more powerful it is and how it's structured. I, for one, am much happier with the 2.0 version. With 2.0, everything you need to do to or with a flashcard, you can do from one spot. Very, very nice.

Sandra
 

sfrrr

状元
Oh, also, I got IA to work with PocketWord. I highlight a word in Word, then click on the IA icon in the upper toolbar and am taken instantly to the translation. Except not. The problem is that I rarely get the correct translation or explanation. E.G. In Word, I highlighted jiang3 mian4, which I thought meant snorkle mask, but up came Miami Beach. With another (or maybe it was that Miami Beach one), I had 121 hits, meaning I might have found the correct answer after going through a whole bunch of whatever-that-character-was, but...well, I didn't want to.

Sandra
 

sfrrr

状元
Forgot something else. You say in your changelog-like intro to the download that there are conflict problems with CE-Star and other Chinese IMEs. Without an IME, of course, I can't read any files outside of PD Reader unless the files are in PDF. This is not, shall we say, ideal.

Do you know what part of CE-Star causes the conflicts? Maybe it's something that I don't need to install. Do you know any other Chinese IMEs that play more politely with PD (other than CE-Star)?

If not, can you think of another suggestion for WM6 besides a fully fledged IME?

Sandra
 

ldolse

状元
@sfrr

Try this for IA - go to the Windows Mobile Settings -> Buttons. Assign a button to start Pleco 2. In the Pleco two settings make sure 'on activate' is set in the internal settings. Then when you click the button from a text message or whatever it will bring up the Pleco IA window.

I didn't see the note that CE-Star is a problem, I imagine it should work ok, it just probably hasn't been tested... I use ZTA4 for Pinyin input with Pleco and it's not a problem. I installed Chinese fonts on my own, CE-Star isn't really neccessary for reading Chinese in other parts of the system...

There are a bunch of alternative Chinese IME's linked in some recent forum threads, and one person listed a Hanwang IME which I've been meaning to try.
 

ldolse

状元
Regarding the flashcard import - sounds good. Note you could also potentially use the search code for checking valid Pinyin during the flashcard import routine for another level of validation.

Did some IA testng - no bugs to report there, it seems to be working quite well. SMS works, Notes works, Internet Eplorer, Tomeraider and SPB Insight also work flawlessly - very nice. The only thing I couldn't test was whether it could handle GB2312/Big5 web pages. I don't have CE-Star installed so they don't render correctly anyway.
 

gato

状元
"SPECCHAR" in dictionary entries: It seems like some special characters are not yet encoded properly in the new dictionaries (Guifan and 21st Century). If you do a fulltext search with "#SPECCHAR", you'll see a list such entries from the 21st Century dictionary. The Guifan dictionary has entries with the same problems, sucha as the entry for "梁上君子".

Remapping the flashcards to the Guifan worked just fine. Thanks. That's a nice little feature to have. I also changed the default mapping for up/down button to page up/down. I'd prefer it to default to page up/down since I'd primarily use it for longer docs with occasional lookups.
 

ipsi

状元
Gato: I think that's actually a known issue mentioned in the first post :).

Found a very small bug: In the More screen of the Manage Flashcards screen, when selecting the list to add or remove from all cards the list name displayed is the one which has (index - 1) relative to what it should be. Has no effect on what list is actually used, just confused me for a second.
 
Top