Beta 5 Bug Report / Feedback Thread

Several more (mostly small) issues with the flashcards:


It does not seem possible to quickly change the dictionary mapping of a flashcard in the information>edit card screen.
With card text "from dictionary" selected in the edit card screen, simply clicking the color-coded dictionary toggle button does not properly toggle through the dictionaries for that specific word - instead it cycles through seemingly random words in the other dictionaries untill it comes back to the original dictionary/entry. At the moment it is neccesary to copy/paste the word into the search box (next to the search button), click search, and then toggle through the dictionaries.


During the final review it still asks you to grade your responses when using "prompt for answer quality".
I am using the "prompt for answer quality" option, and during the final review Pleco continues to prompt me for answer quality. My understanding is that the final review does not impact your card scores, so it seems like this extra input is unneccesary. Not a huge deal, but slightly annoying.


There is some slightly odd display behavior when switching to other programs and then returning during a flashcard session.
For the most part this is cosmetic. If I hit the "home" button on my Axim X50v, instead of taking me to the home screen it just makes the upper taskbar visible. Using the taskbar I can switch to other programs normally. Upon returning to my pleco flashcard session, the button-and-carrot for the default windows software keyboard overlaps slightly with the "reveal answer" and "wrong" buttons. Opening the keyboard and minimizing it causes the entire lower taskbar to appear, and the overlap problem goes away. If I click the "information" button and then return, the flashcard session once again becomes full screen and everything is back to normal. I am using the "magic button" taskbar program, which might have some influence on this behavior.


The default behavior of not doing Anything when trying to add a duplicate flashcard can be very inconvenient.
When I am adding flashcards directly from the reader or from the main dictionary screen, I am not able to add flashcards to a category if it already exists in another category. I definitely do not want to duplicate flashcards, however I do want to add flashcards to the selected category (even if they exist in another category). Currently, in order to add a flashcard which has a duplicate In a different category I have to leave the reader screen (or the main dictionary screen), go to the manage flashcards screen, search for the flashcard, add it to the category I wanted, and then go back to what I was doing. What a pain!

Changing the default behavior of "Don't allow duplicate flashcards" to add the already present flashcard to the selected category, and doing nothing if the already present flashcard is already in the selected category, would save me a lot of time searching around in the manage flashcards screen. I suppose yet another option (mabye "Allow duplicates in different categories") might be a better idea, because I can imagine use cases where this behavior is undesireable.


Copy/Paste functions are difficult to use in the edit flashcards screen.
There is something slightly off about the tap-and-hold as it is implimented on the edit flashcard screen. For some reason it is very difficult to get the popup menu to appear - I am able to get the tap-and-hold menu to come up about half of the time. (This is definitely an important feature, though, in order to paste in definitions from a different word document etc.)


Ignoring all of these small issues, I LOVE the new flashcard system! Even in the current state it is very usable, and it is so much more customizable than Supermemo CE that I want to hug it. The audio-support and free-answer modes are simply awesome!

Great work!
 

marsch

举人
Mike,
“messing up my flashcards” was probably my own fault. I had made a backup copy of the flashcard DB, and it seems like later Pleco used my backup DB instead of the current one, so it looked like I had lost the scores that I had worked on meanwhile. So the question now is: what file does Pleco use as the flashcard DB? And is it possible to make a backup (it’s not that I don’t trust the program :D ) without causing confusion to the program?
But no, there was no file corruption in the sense that any data was completely unusable – it just looked like the scores had been switched back to a previous point in time.

Re filtering: My idea was to filter for two categories. Say category A has flashcards 你 and 你好, cat B has 好 and 你好. So I’d expect to filter for “cat A AND cat B” would just return 你好 as result. Instead, I get all three words. Or is my assumption wrong? By the way: it would be really nice to see how many cards are currently displayed in the “manage flashcards” screen. I know space is very valuable there…

Yes, I am on Windows Mobile, but did the editing with SQLite on Windows. That also worked well for copying scores to a different profile. Thanks.

Re “once a day”: my understanding of switching that off would be: I answer a card wrong so its score drops to 25 (my setting), but then when I do it right twice in a row, adding 100% each time, it’s back at 100, so will be asked again tomorrow. Is that a right understanding? What I observe is that it only adds 100% once, thus leaving the card at 50.

Few more questions:
What exactly is “uncategorized”? It is not that there is no other category assigned, is it? And why does it depend on the selected profile?

Sometimes when there are no more flashcards to be asked, it will give me a message, sometimes it just gives an empty screen – with only the buttons.

I guess the “resume flashcard session” feature is not yet implemented, is it? On my PDA, it only creates a 0 byte file, but doesn’t seem to have any other function.

Thanks again for your great program!
 

bwp

Member
Fantastic software

Apologies if this is redundant with anything above

On a Palm 680 -- charinfo is unreachable via toolbar button or menu, very erratic when set to stylus action select text

Otherwise no problems that haven't been resolved by getting to know the new interface elements.

Thanks.
 

johnh113

榜眼
Mike wrote:
gato - Cards exported from 1.0 are tagged with dictionary IDs so they'll import to the same dictionaries in 2.0 - the best way to move them over to Guifan would be to use the remap command in Manage Cards' More Options screen after you import them. The reason for the two Dicts lists is that the Import one is a permanent mapping (i.e., this is the dictionary which this card is linked to) while the Dicts option in Advanced tries to dynamically remap cards to a different dictionary for a particular session, so if for example you want to try reviewing with Guifan but not move everything over to there permanently yet you can do it that way.

Dear Mike,

I think that after I have imported my flashcards, I might want to have them permanently remapped to a different dictionary for longer than just a particular session. Right now I use the ABC as my primary flashcards dictionary, but I can imagine changing to a different dictionary for a while, and then maybe changing to the Chinese-Chinese dictionary for a while. I wouldn't want to have to remap at the start of every session, but would like my remap to be permanent until I remap again. Will this be possible?

John
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
sfrrr - was the jiang3mian4 that you highlighted in Pinyin or characters? Very odd behavior there. The intro wasn't saying there were problems with CE-Star et al, it was asking people to report them if they encountered any - sorry I wasn't clearer about that. There actually shouldn't be any such conflicts in 2.0, since the font loading / rendering all occur completely independently of Windows' built-in font system and it should therefore be impossible for CE-Star to affect or screw them up, but if they somehow do have problems anyway that's certainly the sort of thing we'd want to know about.

ldolse - glad IA seems to be working well. I'm not sure if we'd want to validate Pinyin in those searches, actually, since even invalid Pinyin (say ka1la1OK) might sometimes be correct for a particular entry - better to just validate it when generating the original dictionary, that way if we matches we know it's OK.

ipsi - noted, particularly irksome part of Palm OS interface programming actually (on WM you just insert text strings and IDs into a popup list box and it takes care of the rest, on Palm you have to handle both the memory management and several different redraw scenarios yourself)

llammamama - good point on the Edit Card screen, at the very least we should pre-populate the search box with the card's headword. The answer quality boxes definitely shouldn't be showing up in the final review, yes. We've seen a few other bits of taskbar weirdness in flashcard sessions - probably would matter less if saved sessions were working well on PPC, but yeah, we should be checking for / re-hiding that keyboard icon whenever the software is activated.

What to do with categories and duplicate flashcards is an interesting question - really depends on an individual's filing system, some people are only going to want a card in one category at a time and if they're already studying it under there won't want it anywhere else, while others are going to want it wherever they're currently adding it. A preference for this would probably make more sense than always doing it one way (or popping up a dialog box, which could get downright annoying), though we're pretty much out of space in the Flashcards preference panel so I don't quite know where we'd put it - might be dropping the Include Example Sents option since the data files aren't really coded up correctly for it yet anyway.

The copy/paste taphold menu was only added a day or two before B5 released so I'm not surprised it's still a little glitchy, should be easy enough to fix. And thanks! Glad you're liking it in general, and yeah, we may not be able to compete with SuperMemo's repetition algorithms but we can better them in interface design / Chinese-oriented features at least.

marsch - OK, glad to hear it's probably not a corrupted file. The database is called Pleco Flashcards.pqb and is stored in your My Documents folder. (but can be moved, and you can certainly back it up without confusing the software) That AND search should return only the cards in both categories, as you described, so looks like there's a bug there. Space is a bit tight on the screen but we could probably stand to make the buttons at the very bottom a little smaller, I agree a count would be an extremely useful feature to have there. You're correct about what should happen with once-a-day on/off; specifically with that option enabled it won't move the score twice in the same direction in a row on the same day, so if you answered the card correctly, tested it again and answered incorrectly the second time it would still lower it that second time. So it sounds like it's not being disabled like it's supposed to be.

"Uncategorized" does mean there's no category assigned - literally it does a search for all of the cards that aren't assigned to any category (don't have any records involving them in 'catassigns'). It doesn't depend on the profile, what does depend on the profile are the score-based portions of Manage Flahscards - the score/difficulty/statistics reset commands in the More screen, searches by score / difficulty / first reviewed / last reviewed / last correct / # correct / # reviewed, sorts by any of those and display in results of any of those. Bit confusing, but we can't think of any other way to to handle it except to have a separate profile popup at the top of that screen, which seems like a pretty big waste of space. Resume session doesn't seem to be working correctly on PPC at the moment for a lot of people, should be fixed soon though.

bwp - what if you highlight a character, does Char Info then work correctly with the toolbar / menu commands? Tap invocation of that is a bit tricky, I agree, especially on a Treo's screen - kind of tough to get working perfectly given how many other things the system interpreting pen movements has to be looking for (highlight / tap-highlight / tap-hold / etc), though hopefully we can improve it a little at least.

johnh113 - you can do that permanent remapping with the Remap to Dict command in the More Options section of Manage Flashcards. The session-specific remapping is pretty seamless, though - it picks the first result it finds whenever there's an ambiguity, so you might get a couple of incorrect mappings because of that, but it only tries to remap a card right before it displays it so there's not really any extra wait at the start of the session for it to remap all of those dictionary entries.
 

sfrrr

状元
mikelove said:
sfrrr - was the jiang3mian4 that you highlighted in Pinyin or characters? Very odd behavior there. The intro wasn't saying there were problems with CE-Star et al, it was asking people to report them if they encountered any - sorry I wasn't clearer about that. There actually shouldn't be any such conflicts in 2.0, since the font loading / rendering all occur completely independently of Windows' built-in font system and it should therefore be impossible for CE-Star to affect or screw them up, but if they somehow do have problems anyway that's certainly the sort of thing we'd want to know about.

Jiang3 mian4 was in chracters, but let me try this again after I install CE-Star. What I did was I highlighted the ASCII characters that get translated into zi when you have an IME running, which I didn't. Let me try it again with an IME.
 

ipsi

状元
That seemed to work fine for me on Palm. Disabled CJKOS, opened a memo, highlighted the ASCII stuff and IA picked it up :). But that was Palm, not WM...

I assume you were highlighting the right number of ASCII characters and that you've got the right encoding selected in Pleco?
 

bwp

Member
Mike --

Thank you for the reply. No problems getting character info via the menu or tool bar for a highlighted character and my stylus technique for getting it to come up through sel text is improving. Just felt like a functionality gap that the button or menu did not bring up charinfo for the current dictionary entry (or first character in a compound). Really minor point.

Cheers
 

sfrrr

状元
ipsi said:
That seemed to work fine for me on Palm. Disabled CJKOS, opened a memo, highlighted the ASCII stuff and IA picked it up :). But that was Palm, not WM...

I assume you were highlighting the right number of ASCII characters and that you've got the right encoding selected in Pleco?

I was careful, but I don't guarantee it. I'll do more experimenting.

Thanks,
Sandra
 
Also, I noticed one dictionary entry (I think in the Oxford dictionary) where pinyin was listed in the pattern "shuei2 or shui2" directly after the headword. In my review session this caused the definition to start with "or shui2" - it obviously wasn't being recognized as pinyin.
 
Soft Reset
after finishing a session of free response. (session created using Repetition spacing-20 pts per day), I tried to start another session it just keeps soft reseting. This is probably just a missing warning dialog box stating that there are no more cards scheduled for review that day...Incidentally, I get the warning dialog box when I have not already tested cards that day and just select a category with no cards in it.

Advanced Settings/General/Card Selection
In Free Answer mode (or any mode for that matter)...I am using "alternating" do determine what will be tested, but it would be better if the final drill tested the same thing that was incorrectly answered in the main session.

Final Drill
Also, it is important to me that I keep doing the final drill until I get all the answers correct (better learning comes from correct responses). Perhaps this is a feature that not everyone would want, but it is very important to me and could be simple check-box option (check-for "continue looping wrong answers until correct").

Audio Flashcards
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding audio flashcards. Under Advanced Settings/Modes I have (auto-play) unchecked. Of course this appears to apply to when the answer is revealed, but because audio volume is so low, I have to put my ear right next to the speaker and press a hardware button to be able to hear the audio clearly...but the audio plays once as soon as the card appears so that I almost certainly miss my first listening. Maybe it would be better if it indicated that it was an audio card and prompted the use to press the audio button or the designated hardware button.

(Resizing boxes/lists is a known issue, but I just want to say that resizing box DURING a flashcard session is not very important to me)
In Self Scored, I like to have a sketch box, and making reziable in the session might seem like a good idea, but for some reason, mine "maximized" taking up almost the entire screen. I can't click the little line to make it shrink back down. I have left the session, checked and un-checked the option under Advanced, but its still big. I'll probably have to re-install or at least reset the preferences to get it to work right. I feel like that resizable option will just keep accidentally getting tapped, when once the size is set in a session, I doubt many people will want to change it. the 2 option "large vs small" option in PD1.3 seems a lot more sensible.

Multiple Choice
I would have to agree with Harm...although I don't plan to use multiple choice extensively. Giving the oppotunity to answer both parts of the question would allow the use to make an adjustment when prompted for answer quality (perhaps scoring a 3 instead of a 1 if they were able to get the definition, but not the pinyin)...

I'm waiting for the new, experimental palm version to fully install...the 600+ missing cards from my last import were mostly, in fact missing...some of my categories went from have 45 cards to 0...most of categories ended up having no cards

Since that to-do is done...I'm looking forward to more guidance on the flashcards (like a rough draft of the manuel)...I'm a little unclear about the features...I could just start another thread where those questions could be asked and other beta-testers could answer them.

Thanks for working so hard to get something working for the TX users.
 
Like Fleminator, I too would very much like to see the final drill loop missed cards until you answer them all correctly. This is default behavior for Supermemo and It really helps get those tough-to-remember cards into your head.
 

Sarevok

进士
This thread is quite long, I don't have time to read it all. If this was already mentioned just ignore this post...

I noticed a minor bug related to SIP (I am using Resco Keyboard by default on iPAQ hx2490 WM5). While reading a book I acassionally have to a check a few words per page but not very often (well, that obviously depends on what I am reading). I turn my device on, perform a search and usually perform another one after my already switched itself to standby mode. When I turn it on again and start typing I get no response from Pleco. It only starts to respond after hiding the SIP and bringing it back again. This is reproducable but not in 100% of the cases, usually 70-80% of them. I also didn't try it with any SIPs other than Resco Keyboard yet...

The other thing is probably not a bug but feature. During the Flashcard Session the main panel with Start button is not visible (I am using Wisbar Advance) which makes it impossible to use that "instant-access-like-function" of MDict, which places the icon triggering this function exactly there - on the main panel. I am using Pleco and MDict together, both of them running all the time. During a Flashcard Session, when I am not sure about the usage of a particular word (or find the ABC Dictionary definition not detailed enough) I can use this to quickly refer to 现代汉语词典 or some other Chinese-Chinese dictionary loaded in MDict... in 1.0 Flashcards that is. Will this be the same in the finished version? If so, I can try to map that function to some hardware button, which would probably remedy the problem, I have to play around with it for a while...

Didn't play that much with the Flashcards yet - the system seems quite robust, quite a lot of things to set up. Though I pretty much understand what every of them does (or can at least guess), I would appreciate some more info on the Flashcard System - i.e. how exactly the scoring and repetition system works in 2.0, how exactly does the answer quality (1-6) affect the scoring etc. Will these things be covered in the manual once the finished version is released?
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
sfrrr - those ASCII characters could be the problem, since Pleco on Pocket PC doesn't attempt any sort of text encoding conversion but only accepts Unicode text. (tricky to extract other kinds of text from the clipboard reliably)

bwp - good point, we definitely need a default behavior for char info with nothing highlighted; sitting there and not doing anything is just silly.

llamamama - unfortunately our database encoder doesn't really handle words with multiple pinyin variations yet, so about all we could do with those oxford entries was to stick the alternate pinyin in the definition.

Fleminator - take a look at my new post in the database-enhanced version thread; I think putting your flashcards on an SD card per that post could definitely help with the database problems you're having. A lot of people seem to be seeing weird behavior with repetition-spaced sessions that don't have any cards, which should make the problem easy to find at least. The system actually remembers which field you were tested on for each incorrect card, so it's already supposed to quiz you on that same field the second time around - not sure why it isn't. Adding the option to loop those incorrect answers is something that's been on our to-do list for a while; the fact that it's in SuperMemo is a pretty good argument for it, but since we haven't gotten around to it yet I can't promise we will before the finished version.

The audio should basically play in any card which has it thanks to the breaking-down-into-component-syllables feature, so once the volume problems are fixed that situation should get a lot easier - sounds like you've understood them correctly. Going back to the big/small option for the sketch box makes a lot of sense, and since it would probably be less work than getting that resizer working correctly there's even a programming-time-saving argument for it. Flashcards manual section should be posted soon.

Sarevok - thanks for the note on Resco, we'll take a look - might be that Pleco itself is ending up in the background (which could involve a bug in Resco that would unfortunately be difficult for us to work around), or it might just be that the keystrokes are being directed somewhere else like one of the toolbar buttons. We should probably add a preference to not hide the top / bottom bars during flashcard sessions, since there are a lot of third-party apps like that that people might want to access. And yes, the automated scoring algorithm is pretty straightforward so we most likely will provide a description of that in the manual.
 

KesterN

秀才
Hi,

Installed Beta 5 on my Treo 680 yesterday, and am really enjoying trying it out.

Just one problem for me: I cannot work out how to input characters with CJKOS. On Plecodict (and, for that matter, any program), I can easily toggle between "En" and "中" to switch between input languages, but this appears to be disabled in Pleco. So, at the moment, I only seem to be able to do pinyin lookups.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.
 

ipsi

状元
I'm not entirely sure why you feel you'd need to input characters with CJKOS in Pleco, but should you so desire, the following options work for me:

Preferences -> External -> External Text Encoding should be set to GB2312 for Simplified or Big5 for Traditional, and Input Field Compatibility Mode should be ticked. This will cause some issues if you want to look up a character that isn't in whichever character set you picked. Pleco does some conversion, but it's not, and cannot be, perfect.
 

KesterN

秀才
Ipsi: Thanks for the response.

I tried what you suggested, and it does indeed bring back the CJKOS input (which I like using).
 

ipsi

状元
Fair enough.

Mike: Couple of thoughts about the flashcard imports - cards get marked as duplicates if they have the same simplified form and at least one *does not* have any traditional characters associated with it. What would be the best way to handle something like 表 then? It can mean either Form/Table/List or Watch in simplified, but those are split if you're using traditional characters, such that 錶 means Watch (as in wristwatch, by the way), and 表 just means form/list/table. This causes Pleco to think I have duplicate cards when, in fact, they're not. Sure, they'll seem like duplicates if you're using simplified, but it does make a difference for traditional, which is kinda annoying.

You may also want to consider stripping out the various bits of the ABC dictionaries like the superscript numbers when comparing them for dupes if you don't already.

You may also want to include warnings that Pleco may struggle if you have background processes running under Palm. I had pTunes streaming music from an internet radio station and I noticed a distinctly slower response time in the flashcards. Starting the session took way longer, etc. Wasn't unusable by any means, but definitely slow.

Would it be possible to bring back the function where hitting up automatically scored a card as correct? I know I complained about this before, but having gotten used to it I find it quite nice :).

I also haven't had crashes on exit for the last little while. I also haven't used Audio, so I suspect they're related.

I think that's all for now.
 
It would be nice if when prompted about duplicates, the dictionary name was appended to the definition so I know which dictionary the definition is coming from. I have that option selected under Display Preferences, but it didn't seem to apply on import

When testing, I had a custom flashcard that was 还是...好了
It popped up when I was trying out Writing Free response with only 4 blanks for characters. Obviously, I knew all these characters, so I inputed 还是好了(omitting the periods), but it marked the last two wrong, perhaps because it was looking for the periods instead of the last two characters. When it is testing free response writing, shouldn't it overlook non-character and test only the characters? Is there a limit in writing free response to a maximum of 4 characters? what if a flashcard phrase exceeds that? How should I input periods, if that is what the answer calls for.

It looks like flashcard import went well, but I keep getting soft resets whenever I try to exit the PB5 It seems to be related to the hardware "home" button and the statistics screen. If I am in the statistics screen and press the home button, I get a soft reset. If I look at statistics of categories other than "all", then leave the statistics screen and press the home button, I get a soft reset. But, I can look at the statistics for "all", then exit the stat screen, then press the home hardware button, and it works just fine. REVISION: I'm noticing soft resets SO often when I try exit PB5 that it must be a more fundamental issue with leaving the program...I get a soft reset majority of the time I try to leave the program.


I'm noticing know that many of the User dictionary enteries that appear to be correct have four or five copies (sometimes 8) of the same card...was this an error on my part? I have "don't allow duplicate entries" selected, so I don't know how else to clear up this problem. When I pressed the Home hardware button while looking at one of these user dictionary entries, it gave me a soft-reset.
I'm not seeing the problem with duplicates in 1.3

"set "Subject Selection" to "Score-based" in Advanced Settings, Show and Ask For will be replaced by a set of number input fields and a series of show / ask popup lists. " --This may just be my opinion, but if I'm limited to four "score-ranges" this feature is pretty useless. If I could had a virtually unlimited number of ranges (say, >20 ranges) I might see how this is useful. Regardless, I'll probably stick with alternating OR create a separate profile for each kind of thing that I want to test (because I probably want Free-response when I have to come up with the pinyin, Self-scored when I have to come up with the definition...etc)

I agree that in the Manage Flashcards Screen, that the number of cards returned in the current search would be helpful/wise use of space. However, it seems like the "Settings..." button and "Advanced..." under the drop down menu bring you to the same page. I think you can safely omit the "Settings..." button because right now, its presence makes the purpose of the top line of the Manage Flashcards screen a little unclear. If you get rid of the "Settings..." button, you'll certainly have room for card count, and you might have room to choose font-size *wink, wink* (it would be nice to toggle between the current font and a smaller one) *wink, wink*

Under Manage Flashcards/Card Info/Choose Categories: it would be really nice in the category tree if a top level category was marked with a "minus" sign if one of its lower level categories contains the selected card. It could still contain a "check" if it specifically contained the card itself...is that too nit-picky.

Apart form killing bugs, I think my highest priority would be to allow the final drill to loop incorrect answers.
 

ipsi

状元
Couple more things I just remembered (Thanks Flem):

Agree with Fleminator that it would be nice to have more than four score-ranges.

Also, when it displays the current/total % at the top of the screen, the % field needs to be moved further right - it gets pushed right up against the numbers if you have, say, 100/1000 in the cur/tot bit. If you hit 1000/1001, I imagine they'd overlap, and that wouldn't be very pretty.
 
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