Beta 5 Bug Report / Feedback Thread

radioman

状元
Is there any reason that my fonts are "tiny" with regard to definitions in the flashcard sessions. In the regular dictionary use mode, I have the headfonts, definitions, etc., all blown up to large. They look very good and there is no problem there. But the font settings do not translate to the flashcards for the pronunciation or the definition (Hanzi looks ok).

*** This is just a flashcard problem ***

- Also I would like to put in a request that the pronunciation be put directly below the Hanzi... so you get...

**********************************
朋友
peng2you5
friend
*********************************


Instead I am getting

*********************************
朋友 peng2you5 friend
*********************************

I thought this is in line with PD v1, but irrespective, the current font config is way too small for me on the flashcards. Any insights appreciated.



Ed
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
ipsi - looks like there's a bug in the duplicate-checking algorithm; it seems to be ignoring the traditional character ("althw") column when only a simplified headword is supplied, rather than checking to see if both it and the simplified character column match that headword. Easy to fix, anyway. The ABC superscripts etc are already stripped out when the entries are added to flashcards, so they don't factor in to the duplicate check - spaces and punctuation, however, do, at least for the moment. (skipping those is really really slow and would probably double how long imports take)

I don't know of any good way to check for the presence of background processes on Palm, so while we could include a note about pTunes etc in the manual there's not really any good way to put up an alert about it. Bringing back the option to mark a card correct/incorrect without revealing it would be tricky since the new flashcard system is somewhat more militant about making sure commands are actually appropriate for the current context - it'd need another preferences option, and at this point every time we add another preference an angel loses its wings. Could consider it in 2.1, though, since we'll probably have to add two or three more screens' worth of preferences anyway for that (I can already tell the reader's going to need at least one screen of its own for button / toolbar / etc customizations).

You're right about that count field, we forgot that All / repetition-spaced sessions might have more than three digits' worth of cards in them.

Fleminator - good point on including a dictionary name in duplicates, we should probably also include category information for the existing card. (and maybe even the new one too, though that's a bit harder) The free-answer matching system is still a bit glitchy like that, until recently it also shifted everything over by one when it ran into a capitalized Pinyin syllable. It is limited to 4 characters, and free-answer sessions automatically exclude any cards that are too long to fit. (accommodating more than 4 characters would require us to redesign the entire interface, which isn't even a possibility until 2.1)

I mentioned the cause of those resets a few pages ago - basically Palm OS handles a form exiting a completely different way depending on whether it's done deliberately by the user or forced by the operating system, and we haven't gotten around to testing every single dialog with the latter exit method yet. So for now you should pretty much always go back to the main dictionary screen before exiting - do you ever notice soft resets in that or do they seem to be confined to a few specific dialogs like Statistics? The user dictionary entry issue sounds like another bug, apparently it's still creating the entry even when the card is a duplicate - should be easy enough to fix anyway. Were you looking at the entry in the main dictionary screen or somewhere else (say the Edit Entry screen)?

The Settings button is there because it's not obvious that choosing Advanced from the top menu would let you change the sort order / display fields, something we imagine a lot of people would find useful. Really those should probably go on a separate screen, but since changing the sort order requires a whole new search anyway it seemed like combining them would be more efficient (saves you from waiting for two long searches instead of one). Adding a font size control would make that screen even more painfully cluttered than it is now, so that's a no-go - I guess we could use the font size setting from the regular dictionary entry list, but adding extra lines of text is going to make scrolling that list significantly slower so I don't know if it's really such a good idea when the scrolling is already borderline too-slow-to-be-usable.

There's a lot more we can do with flashcard field selection, the current score selection option was included mainly so that people who were already using that functionality in 1.0 could at least get the same thing in 2.0 - four fields may not be enough to encompass all of the different field settings we have now, but they should be enough to reproduce any of the headword/pron/defn combinations people were using with the old system at least. In 2.1 we might try for something more comprehensive which actually does switch between different test types (and could perhaps also test you on each card in several different ways, maybe even storing the results of those tests in different scorefiles depending on the test type) - obviously it's an area we can do a lot more with.

The Palm table system we use for category lists only supports empty and checked checkboxes, so getting them to display minus signs would require a pretty major rewrite - we probably should have those tables expand to display all checked categories on open, though. (along with checking all of the child categories if a parent category is selected, and unchecking the parent if any of its children aren't - again something that's very difficult on Palm, though) Looping incorrect answers at the end turned out to require almost no effort (the system was actually specifically checking to see whether it was already running through incorrect answers when it ran out of cards, and not running through them again if so, so all we had to do was turn off that check) so that's already been fixed now.

radioman - you should be able to change the font sizes in the Display tab under Advanced settings. (though a few people have suggested those aren't always saved correctly) Putting pinyin neatly below the headword is actually kind of tricky because a lot of headwords take up more than one line - in a case like

青出於
qīngchūyúlán

versus

青出於

qīngchūyúlán

the former actually ends up looking considerably tidier.
 

radioman

状元
Mike,

Thanks for the comments. The positioning of the PinYin vs. Hanzi, I hear what you are saying and don't necessarily disagree. My much larger problem right now is the flashcard session "larger font"

With regard to the fonts for the flashcard sessions, I have some more information. It appears not to be saving the settings for using the larger fonts in the Flashcard sessions.

- Once in PlecoFlash, I hit the "Advance button
- Hit "Display"
- Check box for "Use large font in definition"
- Check box for "Magnify chars in headword".
- Press "Done"
- press "New Flashcard Session"
- Press "Start Session".
.... At this point I am looking at the flashcard screen, but all but the HeadWord comes up small - that includes PinYin and the associated definitions.

So I bail on the flashcard session, and get back to PlecoFlash opening screen.
- Hit "Adanced"
- Hit "Display"
... At this point, both "Use large font in definition" and Magnify chars in headword have the check boxes highlighted.
... also at this point while I am going through this, the program just Crashed to a Fatal Alert - DataMgr.c, Line: 10703, Can't move open DB.."

So I hit the "Reset" button and restart Pleco 2, which opens to the dictionary screen.
... I open PlecoFlash
... click "Advanced"
... Hit "Display", which shows neither the "use large font in definition, nor "Magnify chars in headword" with their boxes checked.""... just crashed again with the same failure after about 2 minutes of holding on that screen.

So I hit "Advanced"
- hit "Display"
- Check both boxes for the font magnification.
- NOW I press the "General" tab
- Now I press the "Display" tab again ... and the boxes are again not checked.

it seems that the box check/save function is not working write.

By the way... after again camping in this subroutine on a page for a bout 2-3 minutes, the error came up again "DataMgr.c... Line: 10703...".

Ed.
 
I've been searching the forum, but I'm having trouble discovering how to create a document with a Chapter Index for the Reader...Anyone willing to point me in the right direction?
 

daniel123

榜眼
Still have a problem in flashcard editing.

I just use custom flashcards. I don't want to link my flashcards to a dictionary. That means I want to use a custom headword, a custom Pinyin and a custom definition. I do not only enter words but also complete sentences that I want to learn. Sometimes these are short sentences sometimes long sentences. It was never a problem in PD 1.03. I still didn't find a way how to handle this in beta5.

1) In PD 1.03 I can edit each entry via it's user dictionary: Edit->Add/Edit Entry. There I can change all three input fields. I can also input long sentences without a problem.

In beta5 I found Modules->Add/Edit Custom Entry. But the only thing I can change is the definition the others are read only. Why?

2) In PD 1.03 I can edit each entry during flashcard via "i" button and Edit Dict Entry. There I can change all three input fields. I can also input long sentences without a problem.

In beta5 it seems that I cannot edit an entry any more during flashcard session. This was very comfortable if I notice a mistake in the content that I want to correct. I could do it immediately. Now I have to write it down on a paper or so to do it later. It's such a circuitous way.

3) In PD 1.03 I can edit each entry via "Manage Flascards"->Edit List->Edit->Edit Dict Entry. I have the same edit possibilities as in (1) and (2).

In beta5 I can go via Manage Flashcards, select the word and put "i" button. The card info shows the content of the entry very very small on the top and very big all statistic values. I can go on via Edit Card. That shows the content in full length in read only mode. The only thing I can do now is to move to Custom. This truncates both the headword and the Pinyin to a length of one line and it completely deletes the definition. I have to input the definition new again and I cannot edit the truncated Headword or Pinyin parts of longer sentences.

Maybe I missed any new way but I really don't know how to edit my flashcards that are already imported in a reasonable way. I hope this still will be possible in 2.0 including also longer sentences.


Some time ago I reported a poblem with SlovoEd Classic English/German dictionary in resident mode together with beta5. Directly after installation of beta5 I was able to use SlovoEd in a resident mode to translate English words on the fly into German. It just leaded to a softreboot after some times. Now in nearly every case it leads directly to a softreboot when try to start beta5. I must turn of SlovoEd's resident mode to be able to start PD. I hope very much there will be a way to fix it.

THX

Daniel
 

ipsi

状元
Fleminator: You'll need to wait for the Document converter to be release for 2.0. And that will probably come out after it's finished, I imagine. You can add your own in the document reader, but you can't mark up a file with Bookmarks.
 

ipsi

状元
He's saying that the Free Answer mode won't display cards with more than four characters in the headword. Other modes will work as normal (e.g. Self-Scored).
 

weight

举人
I just went to have a try, found out what was going on and then quickly edited my last email ... I should have gone to look first before opening my mouth...

sorry and thanks ipsi

everyone, the question was: "are cards with more than four characters supported by the flash card system and the converter"
...
indeed they are

ipsi said:
He's saying that the Free Answer mode won't display cards with more than four characters in the headword. Other modes will work as normal (e.g. Self-Scored).
 

gato

状元
Reader Font

The fonts for certain punctuation marks (such as quotation marks, and "space") are not the same size as the fonts for characters, resulting in jagged edges on the right margin (at least on the Palm). It's not a big deal, but seems easy to fix. I would also prefer a smaller scrollbar on the right side. The current arrows are a bit too big and take up valuable screen real estate. But that's not a huge deal, either.
 

ipsi

状元
Couple of things: Some punctuation is not full-width. I'm thinking mostly of 。here, but ’……‘ is in the same boat.

Hitting the up button in the reader only takes you up half a page (+- a few lines), while the down button takes you down a full page or so, which is a bit weird. Means I'm more likely to have my desired heading at the top of the page though :). They're all seperated by some number of --------, by the way.

I've also figured out why it sometimes crashes on exit: If you start a second flashcard session, it will crash when you try to leave Pleco from the main dictionary screen, regardless of what button is pressed and regardless of how long the session was. Easily reproducible on my 680 - Menu/N, New Session, Start, Stop, New Session, Start, Stop, Done, {home}, crash. Same behaviour occurs with 3 sessions in a row, so I'd assume its something that always happens when > 1. Interestingly, I can still start the session, and work through it without crashing. Only when I try to leave.
 
I'm trying to keep up with everything, but I'll just say quickly that sometimes when I'm in free answer mode, and I push the "answer" button BEFORE I input anything (characters or pinyin), it marks the question correct...I can only tell because it asks me to rate the answer 4, 5, or 6.
 
Oh! haha! What timing Fleminator - I was just about to complain that when doing a free-response flashcard where the answer is a radical (from the unihan dictionary), it's impossible to answer correctly it using the free-response box since the handwriting recognition doesn't allow you to input radicals.

However, if clicking the "answer" button automatically scores it correct, then that would solve the problem. However, for me it always marks it wrong. I think it would make much more sense for the "answer" box to prompt the user whether or not they got it correct like a normal self-scored card. If the users are inputting chinese characters like normal then they should never need to hit the answer button anyways, and if they do need to hit it then it should let them choose whether what they were thinking was right or wrong.


By the way is there any way to start a session with two different categories of flashcards, with each category utilizing its own test type? I'm imagining working around this cannot-input-radicals issue by testing each category differently, but without having to start two separate sessions. The ultimate in flexibility would be the ability to specify test types AND score files separately for each individual category, within a single flashcard session (I'm drooling just thinking about it). I'm not that greedy, though =) Maybe in Pleco 2.1?
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
radioman - yeah, looks like it's not getting saved correctly. We haven't seen behavior like you describe on long waits - any chance that that might coincide when your Palm's auto-off timer? (so it would normally be turning itself off at that moment) Sounds like it's trying to do some sort of memory cleanup, failing at it, and dying. There are actually some really cool algorithms for optimizing word-wrap by minimizing the amount of space at the end of all lines (considering the entire paragraph as a whole), but they're impractical to implement on a PDA unfortunately.

daniel123 - user dictionary entries don't allow headwords/pronunciation to be modified because of some optimizations we've made for the sake of sort ordering (you might notice that they're now sorted by pinyin/characters) - there are also some new features we're thinking about for the future that would require entry IDs to permanently map to a specific headword. So for right now if you wanted to change an entry's headword you'd have to create a new entry - something we should probably automate with a "delete + replace" option or something like that.

However, there's a difference between user dict entries and custom flashcards - the latter can be fully edited, and for things that aren't words (sentences etc) they're a better choice anyway since you really don't want those coming up in dictionary searches in the first place. So I'd suggest using custom flashcards instead of user dict entries to create your new cards. The fields in the Edit Card screen are actually supposed to be scrollable (like the fields on the Edit Entry screen), there's just a bug that's preventing that - once that's working that's where you'd want to go to create new custom cards. It also should be copying in the definition along with the headword/pron for free / user dict entries, so its sounds like there's another bug there.

Cards can't be edited during sessions because the new flashcard system assumes cards don't change during the course of a session (makes things much simpler / faster in a few places) - fixing this would be very complicated so it's unlikely we will unless we get lots and lots of complaints about it. So for that I'd suggest creating a new category for "Cards to Fix" and adding a button via the Display tab of Advanced settings so that you can put cards in that category with a single button tap; much faster than writing them down, all you have to do is search for the category in Manage Flashcards and you can easily go in and edit each card (and then remove it from that category).

To be honest, we never really designed the flashcard system to accommodate sentences - we know people are using them anyway, and we're certainly not trying to prevent it, but the reason why Pleco has a flashcard system at all is because it's extremely convenient to have it integrated with a dictionary (adding new words as you see them, not having to fill in the definition yourself, etc), and hence it's really been built around words - several test modes won't work with cards longer than a certain length, and even the audio system currently only plays a maximum of 8 syllables at a time. We certainly might add better sentence support in the future, probably in conjunction with licensing a grammar dictionary, phrasebook, or some other resource so that people who can't take the time to input their own sentences can still make use of it (and maybe also finally adding a pinyin->character input feature so that you can enter sentences more quickly than handwriting them), but for 2.0 about all we can do is try to keep it from screwing up your sentences too badly.

gato - we've noticed that font spacing issue, but fixing it would actually be kind of tricky since we'd have to go through and automatically convert all of the half-width characters in each document to full-width; particularly tricky on Palm since a lot of the punctuation / alphabet characters in our Palm fonts had to be custom-designed. With the arrow buttons, we thought we'd be better off making them too big than too small since some people have more difficulty hitting buttons accurately than others - at some point we'll probably rework the system to have an actual scrollbar but that wasn't feasible for 2.0.

ipsi - the code for scrolling up in reader documents is for various reasons extremely complicated (way more so than scrolling down) so what's in there for that now is a temporary function while we work up something better. Hence the weird scroll amounts. Not seeing the crash you mention on our 680, but we've seen some other weird crashes on exit like that, for example on our T5 it seems like whenever you use the stroke order diagram system more than once or twice it crashes when you leave the main screen - hopefully just a case of some pointer being accidentally freed twice or something along those lines.

Fleminator - interesting, it's always supposed to mark those incorrect.

llammamama - I suppose some way of overriding the scoring might make sense, but it probably would have to be through a hardware button since adding new onscreen buttons is really hard - probably the best bet with things like those radicals would be to flag them out in a separate category and exclude it (in the Card Filter screen) from your free-answer sessions. The answer button exists mainly for people who leave the auto-scoring option off so that they can double-check they've entered their answer correctly before it gets scored.

Making people choose between correct/incorrect each time seems like it kind of defeats the purpose of free-answer, at that point you might as well just use self-scored with a sketch box - the two best arguments for having free-answer at all are that it's more convenient than self-scored (since you don't have to manually check the answer yourself) and it's completely unforgiving of mistakes (which some people have difficulty with on their own). I suppose as long as we kept the green/red correct/incorrect markers in the input boxes people could still score themselves on that basis, but it's still adding an extra step.

Mixed-mode sessions are something we might consider for 2.1 but certainly not before then (and possibly not even until 3.0, since we're talking about two or three new configuration screens here) - certainly some interesting possibilities with those though.
 

radioman

状元
Mike,

I am continuing to "hack around" and will look at the timers, etc. Not sure but can let you know.

I was not clear with your comment about "not being saved correctly". I assume you are referencing the the large font check boxes for the flashcard sessions. Do you see that problem with the check boxes not being saved as well?

Large font is a big issue for me as I spend hours a day on the flashcards and the smaller fonts make it pretty unbearable due to what I will call "challenged" eyesight . if the fonts are set the way I have them in the dictionary, everything looks great.

Ed.
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Yes, I was referring to that checkbox - we're seeing the same behavior here so it looks like the form wasn't hooked up correctly.
 

daniel123

榜眼
>To be honest, we never really designed the flashcard system to accommodate sentences - we know people are using them anyway, and we're certainly not trying to prevent it

Well the way I can use sentences in PD 1.03 flashcards is already very good. The only thing I am missing in PD 1.03 flashcard system is sound capability. No problem for me if sound stops after 8 words. Most of my flashcard entries are just 2 syllable words maybe 20 percent are sentences. Definitely it's a great help.

I always import flashcard files that I had written on my computer. But I also want be able to edit the cards later in a well arranged way inside PD to correct tiny things. So if you fix the bug I hope the size of the input fields are quite similar to PD 1.03. Then it would be great for me.
Of course if you make it better in future as you suggested it would be perfect but at the moment it is enough for me if it's comparable well as in PD 1.03.

Because I am not a native English speaker the English definitions of the dicts are not very helpful for me for learning. In my opinion the particularities of languages are too difficult two go over two languages to learn. No problem to look up a word in the dicts with English definitions but if I really want to learn new words I prefer to use German definitions to take care of language particularities. So that's the reason why I want to make my own definitions even for single words. Therefore I compare more than one dictionary and also the English based ones. Of course I love the HanDeDict.

The idea to add cards during flashcard session to special category and to edit them later is a good idea. Sounds reasonable.

I found another problem today. I tried to import a flashcard text file that I have written on computer (I tried GB-2312 and UTF8). The file could be imported without a problem in PD 1.03 but always leads to a soft reboot under beta5(pf). I didn't try it before installing the pf version.

Daniel
 
mikelove said:
So for now you should pretty much always go back to the main dictionary screen before exiting - do you ever notice soft resets in that or do they seem to be confined to a few specific dialogs like Statistics?
Yes, I do. They are becoming more and more frequent...I hardly ever exit without a soft reset form any screen (including the main dictionary screen)

mikelove said:
The user dictionary entry issue sounds like another bug, apparently it's still creating the entry even when the card is a duplicate - should be easy enough to fix anyway. Were you looking at the entry in the main dictionary screen or somewhere else (say the Edit Entry screen)?

I was looking at them in the main dicitonary screen...I really don't know how I would notice duplicates if I'm already in the Edit Entry screen.

why isn't there an option to display a card's score on the card during a session?...that might help me get a better feel for what the scores mean...If I tap and hold the "up/down" arrow button to adjust my score a more custom amount, the categories pop-memo shows

Also,I was hoping for a "Grace" or "Cheat" button that would be useful if I skip a few days of Repetition-Spaced review from time to time. I believe super-memo has this feature, and it redistributes the cards so you aren't overwhelmed when you come back (It could be as simple as shifting the dates by 3 days on all the cards if it has been three days since any cards have been reviewed...but I think SM uses a fancier algorithm) I never used super-memo, but my classmates who chose that over pleco tell me about it.

Related Question: I took a ~2 week~ break from flash cards at the end of July. Then I exported that flashcard file that I was usuing in Pleco 1 into the Beta 5. Just to compare, I checked how many cards would pop up on August 1. Pleco 1 brought up 2363 :shock: but the Beta had only 622. Shouldn't it have initially mapped over exactly the same according to my Spacing Custom Setttings (Rank Testing Settings Dialog Box)? If the beta somehow mapped and redistributed stuff, I'm very happy. If I lost those cards or my stats, that would be a problem.

It would also be nice in written Free-Response to be able to write full-screen (over the definition) instead of having to fit the character in that little tiny box. Thats the way I input characters on the main dictionary search screen, and it would nice to use in flashcard sessions as well, if thats an easy option to implement.

I'm mainly using self-scored sessions, and I wish I had more info, but I usually get a soft-reset after I have reviewed no more than 40 cards. I can't remember when I've gotten more than 40 cards.
 
Fleminator said:
Also,I was hoping for a "Grace" or "Cheat" button that would be useful if I skip a few days of Repetition-Spaced review from time to time. I believe super-memo has this feature, and it redistributes the cards so you aren't overwhelmed when you come back (It could be as simple as shifting the dates by 3 days on all the cards if it has been three days since any cards have been reviewed...but I think SM uses a fancier algorithm) I never used super-memo, but my classmates who chose that over pleco tell me about it.

Supermemo for the desktop does have this feature (It's called "mercy" and is indeed very useful), although there is nothing similar in Supermemo CE (the pocket PC edition). They actually have no algorithm for re-spacing the cards in a fancy manner - you're able to re-distribute the backed-up cards evenly over as many days as you want (or by as many repetitions as you can handle per day) - it shuffles backed-up cards to come up before the regularly scheduled cards during this interval. An important part of this re-distribution is that it does Not affect the spacing of cards which are not scheduled in the near future, since changing the spacing of ALL cards would defeat the purpose of repetition based spacing. The algorithm hand-waving comes into play when calculating what the redistributed cards score will be next, after taking into account the disrupted spacing of each card.

I definitely think this feature would be worth considering for 2.1 or later, however in the short term I think a calendar which lets us see how many repetitions are scheduled for each day would be more useful. So long as you have less than a week or so worth of flashcards backed up, often the best solution is to just lock yourself into a room and crunch through them as opposed to using a delay feature. However, when things get out of hand sometimes you have no other choice, and in this case a "mercy" or "grace" feature can mean the difference between giving up and fighting through.
 
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