New Icon

[mikelove]

We're revamping the app icon to look a bit more "skeuomorphic" (realistically-textured, like most of Apple's new apps) - it'll still have the same 鱼 in the middle, but now it's against a paper background, with a little name seal in the corner, in a more proper frame - vaguely suggesting the idea of calligraphy. We were inspired to do this by the new Retina Display iPad - basically we feel like the current icon design just looks too "boring" on a device with such high resolution, which already the vast majority of our iPhone users are on (the iPhone 4 having been out for almost 2 years now) and soon enough the majority of our iPad users will be on too.

The current design looks like this:



However, we're probably going to change the name seal part of it to something like this:



or to an old name seal from a calligraphic scroll, and we're also reconsidering whether the font for the middle character is the best bet - a few of the people we've talked to have suggested that it's either a) not very good calligraphy or b) unattractive-looking to people who don't know Chinese. (my wife describes it as a "frowny face" and on reflection I've come to realize that she has a point there - we don't want to look uninviting to people for whom characters haven't yet become familiar)

Anyone have any opinions about the icon in general or the font specifically? You can see 鱼 in a vast array of different fonts at this site (though to see the traditional version you have to enter the simplified 鱼 and then switch to traditional). We could also skip fonts altogether and just take a 鱼 from an old-enough-to-be-public-domain piece of calligraphy if it was high-resolution enough - there's a famous one that only has 3 strokes on the bottom, though that seems likely to elicit a lot of "hey, your icon is missing a stroke!" comments, but I haven't yet been able to dig up one by 王羲之 or 趙孟頫 or one of the other legendary calligraphers. (it would be extremely cool to have a design element on our icon from the Jin dynasty)

 

[character]

I keep coming back to the app icon being a key sales device; supposedly many people won't look further at an app if the icon isn't very impressive. It's good that your app icon design indicates money was spent so the app is worth at least a quick look, but it doesn't say much about what the app does.

I'd be inclined to have 中文辭典 in modern characters, and make the seal large enough to be read on retina devices, if possible.

WRT the 鱼 the main issue seems to be the bottom stroke, so perhaps you can just replace that with a straighter stroke.

 

[Vzzzbx]

The squiggly stroke is indeed slightly odd, and it took me a few seconds to work out what the character was.

I'm deeply accustomed to the old white-on-blue 魚, so in marketing terms I can't be objective, but I agree with character in that the new icon doesn't express the purpose of the app any better than the old icon. It also doesn't match the current look and feel (but here I'm assuming the current look and feel hasn't changed!). Mike, have you considered just adding textures and definition to the existing icon, or even using the catfish instead?

I suspect most people who come to Pleco (and subsequently buy add-ons) do so via word-of-mouth, blog recommendations, etc., and that they're already open to using Pleco by the time they see the icon. From that perspective, looking really nice is probably enough.

Edit: Oh, and would it be worth waiting for Apple's iOS 6 announcement? The springboard is looking a bit tatty now, so a major change in home screen/app presentation is not unlikely.

 

[scykei]

I like the new icon. Perhaps you can somehow find a better substitute for the calligraphic character in the middle, but the border is amazing. Is that some sort of hint about the major interface overhaul?

I can't seem to really use any of the websites you linked, however.

 

[mikelove]

I keep coming back to the app icon being a key sales device; supposedly many people won't look further at an app if the icon isn't very impressive. It's good that your app icon design indicates money was spent so the app is worth at least a quick look, but it doesn't say much about what the app does.

With a lot of apps that's true, but we aren't really ever expecting to get a lot of attention from the top charts - the only one of those in which we routinely appear in a prominent spot is Top Grossing Reference, which doesn't exactly get a lot of attention. If we were a game, or even just a sort of app that people wouldn't think to look for, there might be some value to putting more information content in the icon, but we're mainly just trying to stand out in a list of search results for "chinese dictionary" or "chinese flashcards" or whatever, and having the icon look expensive is about the only thing we can really do for those.

WRT the 鱼 the main issue seems to be the bottom stroke, so perhaps you can just replace that with a straighter stroke.

Actually I think we need the 4 separate strokes - some traditional character users seem to get offended by people using simplified characters (for political or other reasons), while simplified character users don't really seem to be bothered by the occasional use of traditional, so a traditional icon keeps everyone happy (and has the side effect of advertising our app's traditional character friendliness).

I'm deeply accustomed to the old white-on-blue 魚, so in marketing terms I can't be objective, but I agree with character in that the new icon doesn't express the purpose of the app any better than the old icon. It also doesn't match the current look and feel (but here I'm assuming the current look and feel hasn't changed!). Mike, have you considered just adding textures and definition to the existing icon, or even using the catfish instead?

We have, and the final design may end up as some sort of a hybrid between this icon and the current one - add that lovely new background texture (perhaps in blue again) and the more natural-looking metal but keep the character metallic and in the foreground. The catfish worries me because the 魚 really is a major part of our branding at this point, plus if we drop the Chinese character we're left with something that actually tells people even less about our app than the current icon does.

Edit: Oh, and would it be worth waiting for Apple's iOS 6 announcement? The springboard is looking a bit tatty now, so a major change in home screen/app presentation is not unlikely.

I don't think they're likely to change the look of icons - they're too much a part of the iPhone's branding; they might present them differently, or add home screen widgets, or animate the backgrounds, but an iPhone without rounded-cornered icons would be like a Mac without an Apple menu. Also too much of a disruption for developers, who are already juggling the new iPad and may soon have one or two other new screen sizes to deal with - top-tier icon development takes a LOT of work.

I like the new icon. Perhaps you can somehow find a better substitute for the calligraphic character in the middle, but the border is amazing. Is that some sort of hint about the major interface overhaul?

Thanks! Actually the icon guys came up with that texture, but we like it so much that we may weave it into other places too.

 

[character]

Actually I think we need the 4 separate strokes - some traditional character users seem to get offended by people using simplified characters (for political or other reasons), while simplified character users don't really seem to be bothered by the occasional use of traditional, so a traditional icon keeps everyone happy (and has the side effect of advertising our app's traditional character friendliness).

So go with 4 dots instead of a frown.

Each dot can highlight a different Pleco feature: OCR, flashcards, reader, and dictionary. I joke.

 

[Vzzzbx]

The catfish worries me because the 魚 really is a major part of our branding at this point, plus if we drop the Chinese character we're left with something that actually tells people even less about our app than the current icon does.

Oh yes, of course.

I don't think they're likely to change the look of icons - they're too much a part of the iPhone's branding; they might present them differently, or add home screen widgets, or animate the backgrounds, but an iPhone without rounded-cornered icons would be like a Mac without an Apple menu.

True. I hadn't considered the brand strength of app icons, so yes, absolutely.

some traditional character users seem to get offended by people using simplified characters (for political or other reasons), while simplified character users don't really seem to be bothered by the occasional use of traditional

Yep. Although I'm learning simplified (and perhaps because I'm learning simplified), I can see how the beauty and meaning has been ripped out of so many characters. Your decision to stay with traditional is spot on, especially as you're going with the calligraphic style.

 

[Vzzzbx]

A good friend of mine designs apps and associated branding, doesn't learn Chinese (but knows that I do), and didn't know what Pleco was. I showed him the new icon and asked for his immediate impression. He said:

• It appears to be related to writing Chinese, possibly a calligraphy-specific tool.
• The icon is 'damn beautiful'.

After I told him what the software does, he said:

• As red and gold appear to be important colours for the brand, perhaps consider colouring the metal border gold.
• The 'waves/ripples in the background' invoked Japan for him, although he didn't know whether it was a Chinese visual motif as well. He thought red silk might be worth looking at, if you wanted to avoid cultural assumptions.

I asked him because he has an excellent eye, but also because he and I have had discussions about people's response to new branding when they're invited to comment verses people's response to new branding that they don't know or care about, and he's very conscious of that difference. We on this forum fall into the former group, so cannot represent the latter.

 

[mikelove]

Each dot can highlight a different Pleco feature: OCR, flashcards, reader, and dictionary. I joke.

Actually one of their early sketches did work a little like that, but they were too small for people to learn anything from them and made the icon considerably less attractive.

Yep. Although I'm learning simplified (and perhaps because I'm learning simplified), I can see how the beauty and meaning has been ripped out of so many characters. Your decision to stay with traditional is spot on, especially as you're going with the calligraphic style.

Thanks - I do like the traditional 魚 better, it has a much stronger link to the old pictographic fish fins. But given that the majority of characters are soulless 形声字 anyway I'm not generally that bothered by simplification, it's just nice to keep a few of the old forms around.

It appears to be related to writing Chinese, possibly a calligraphy-specific tool.

Actually a pretty good argument for switching the thing back to 楷体 (or a calligraphic style that's closer to it anyway).

The icon is 'damn beautiful'.

Glad to hear it!

As red and gold appear to be important colours for the brand, perhaps consider colouring the metal border gold.

Ironically they're not, we just think red looks better than blue here.

The 'waves/ripples in the background' invoked Japan for him, although he didn't know whether it was a Chinese visual motif as well. He thought red silk might be worth looking at, if you wanted to avoid cultural assumptions.

True, but we've had a "fan" icon from day 1 so even if it feels a bit more Japanese it's a motif we've used in the past. Red silk would be a tough texture to convey at icon sizes but it's an interesting idea. (we tried a *lot* of textures before we found this one, though)

I asked him because he has an excellent eye, but also because he and I have had discussions about people's response to new branding when they're invited to comment verses people's response to new branding that they don't know or care about, and he's very conscious of that difference. We on this forum fall into the former group, so cannot represent the latter.

Thanks for asking him - really glad to have another opinion. And indeed, it's a very important distinction - nobody reading this is actually being targeted by the new icon since you've all already downloaded Pleco.

 

[Solarin88]

That looks great! When do you think we'll see it? I assume it's part of the big upcoming update?

 

[mikelove]

That looks great! When do you think we'll see it? I assume it's part of the big upcoming update?

Thanks! And yes - another major reason for the new icon, in fact; past history suggests that some people are going to find the update "disappointing" if it doesn't have a few visual enhancements like this to go along with the massive functional improvements.

 

[Eddy]

Hi, I think the new app icon is a great step forward! I specifically like the paper background, the little name seal and the frame.

Two points that might be interesting:

About the icon in general - it is red now. The icon used to be blue coloured.
Red as a colour is easily linked to China. So I guess it follows naturally to use it for a Chinese language app icon. However, it could be that many other icons that are targeting the same Chinese language learner customers are also using the colour red for that reason. So with using red you might run the risk of not setting Pleco apart from others in the market (or in marketing speak, red colour might not be a strong discriminator versus competition). I think a quick benchmark of the other competing icons (and their colour use) is a good idea - how does the Pleco icon stand out?
I find that colour can also have an impact on my studying. The blue background on the iPad has a calming effect which I like when doing my flashcard reviews (similar to why in operating theaters surgeons wear soft blue or soft green clothing I guess). Personally, I'd prefer a blue coloured background vs a red coloured background while studying.

About the font specifically - I think 魚 looks great and is a key part of the Pleco brand (would not replace with a catfish pictogram or such). I like a more caligraphy-styled version of the character but the new icon character is too "messy" and unattractive to my eyes. I'm not sure if a beginner learner would recognise it as 魚 (I don't think I would). In my view a less "messy" execution of the character would hit the mark.

Hope this helps,
cheers

 

[mikelove]

About the icon in general - it is red now. The icon used to be blue coloured.
Red as a colour is easily linked to China. So I guess it follows naturally to use it for a Chinese language app icon. However, it could be that many other icons that are targeting the same Chinese language learner customers are also using the colour red for that reason. So with using red you might run the risk of not setting Pleco apart from others in the market (or in marketing speak, red colour might not be a strong discriminator versus competition). I think a quick benchmark of the other competing icons (and their colour use) is a good idea - how does the Pleco icon stand out?

Well really only one of our competitors on either platform uses red, and that one hasn't been a serious threat for a good 2 years now. (if it weren't for Apple's massive over-weighting of historical download numbers they'd have faded from the top "chinese dictionary" results a long time ago) Blue does have some branding value, though, so we're still playing around with both possibilities. Regardless, we have no plans to change the color in any other area of the app, just in the icon.

About the font specifically - I think 魚 looks great and is a key part of the Pleco brand (would not replace with a catfish pictogram or such). I like a more caligraphy-styled version of the character but the new icon character is too "messy" and unattractive to my eyes. I'm not sure if a beginner learner would recognise it as 魚 (I don't think I would). In my view a less "messy" execution of the character would hit the mark.

We're looking for something in that vein, yes - calligraphic but with separated strokes. Thanks!

 

[mikelove]

Actually, Ilike the current design as it is. But if you want to give it a change then I'll support the idea)

We're actually switching to something a bit closer to that now - taking some of the texture ideas and generally higher level of detail from this icon and applying them to our existing design with (probably) the existing character. The "frowny face" turned out to be a real issue for non-Chinese-speakers and we couldn't find any other 鱼 that looked right - no other 行书 calligraphic font looked any better, handwritten samples of that character in 行书 looked worse, and other styles like 楷书 and 隶书 and 草书 didn't really fit the rest of the icon styling well.

But the extra texture/detail is fantastic so we're definitely keeping that aspect of it at least.

 

[sfrrr]

I must be thick. Why not just use the traditional character for yu (with four dots at the bottom) rather than the simplified yu (with one line at the bottom)? I too think that the first one (beautiful icon in beautiful background) is striking.

Just to prove I'm still reading the forum and using the products, Mike. :twisted:

 

[mikelove]

I must be thick. Why not just use the traditional character for yu (with four dots at the bottom) rather than the simplified yu (with one line at the bottom)? I too think that the first one (beautiful icon in beautiful background) is striking.

Because we haven't found any calligraphic version of 魚 with four dots that looks good in this design (and we tried a LOT of them). It's a lot easier to make a pretty icon that looks good in all of the contexts it has to appear (app launcher screens, app store search results, app store product listings, etc) if you drop the idea of paper + ink calligraphy and stick to something a bit more abstract like our current design.

 

[mikelove]

We ended up with a much more conservative redesign:



Basically just giving it some nice texture and making the metal a bit more realistic / reflective. Far and away the most common opinion among people we talked to was that they liked the old icon better than any of our new ideas and that we should basically just stick with that and clean it up a bit, so that's where we finally ended up.

 

[scykei]

Hmm. Not bad, but the pattern in the background seems to stand out too much. How does a smaller version of that look?

 

[mikelove]

Hmm. Not bad, but the pattern in the background seems to stand out too much. How does a smaller version of that look?

That's tricky because the same image gets scaled down to make the smaller version that shows up in App Store search results; scaling down the texture in this version makes it insufficiently visible in that one. But that also means that people will rarely see it at this size - it will usually be 144x144 or smaller, Apple just makes you supply a 1024x1024 version for future-proofing reasons. We will however downplay the 3D-ness of the background in versions that primarily appear at this size (e.g. in our Android Market banner, assuming we keep our current icon-centric design for that).

 

[Tezuk]

I think it is great. Glad that you kept the old style. Now just bring on the update.