Dictionary Entries With Problems

koxinga

Member
So you can't correct the omissions on the dictionary ? I also found 堵塞 dǔsè and dǔsāi in ABC.

(and BTW, thanks for this great tool ! I have it always with me and use it all the time !)
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Oh those characters are in the dictionary, we just don't have the means to draw them on the screen yet. Once we work that part out the data will be in the dictionary ready to be used.

(and you're very welcome!)
 

HW60

状元
The radical 釆 bian4 is shown with 8 strokes in Pleco. My dictionaries show 7 strokes.
 

HW60

状元
Pleco shows depending on the dictionary for 釆:

UNI: Bian4, Cai3: distinguish; KangXi radical 165
CC: bian4: to distinguish
RAD: bian4: distinguish; sort ("modern standalone: NO")
HDD: bian4, German definition
In my other dictionaries 釆 is not included, probably because there is no standalone character 釆.

The Stroke Order screen shows the same character Bian4 Cai3 for all of my dictionaries and says it is a radical itself with 8 strokes (the vertical stroke has two parts: 3rd and 6th stroke, though the final result looks like 1 stroke). Probably there is the same source of information for the stroke order screen independent of the dictionary.

According to the stroke order screen the character 采 Cai3 Cai4 has the same radical as 釆, i.e. 釆 (and easy to count 8 strokes).

悉 xi1 is an example for a character using 釆 and 11 strokes (7 for 釆).
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Very odd... on my system it's definitely coming up with 7 strokes, in the stroke order screen, the character info details screen ("TotalStrokes"), and the radical input screen. I even double-checked this on the iPhone version and it was listed correctly there too.

Where exactly are you seeing 釆 with 8 strokes? Is it just that the radical appears that way when rendered as a standalone character in a block of text? Have you replaced Pleco's built-in Chinese font by any chance? And this is on Windows Mobile, right?
 

HW60

状元
I looked for the first time to the bottom of the character info details screen (sorry for that) and found 7 strokes for 釆 bian4 (!), but

I use a HTC Touch HD with MS Mobile 6.1. My Pleco directory is on my sd card, my flashcard db in another directory on the sd card too. I do not know which font Pleco uses, but the Pleco directory has a file ZYSong with 8.04 MB.

The following steps show the 8 strokes:

- enter 釆 (handwriting) and get 釆 and 采 and others in the character box.
- Hit on 釆 to copy 釆 to the main input field.
- depending on the dictionary I get different definitions für 釆 (described in the last post), but always the same character 釆 in the definition field.
- Hit on 釆 in the definition field to open the Stroke Order Screen
- Select Stroke Order
- The character displayed looks like having 7 strokes, but actually paints 8 different strokes. It is displayed in an unusual fat font, not the usual one
- Apart from the big stroke order character, there is the information
Bian4 Cai3
Radical:
釆 (this is the character itself)
8/8

It looks as if there were two informations for the stroke count: 7 on the character details screen and when selecting the character by radical input, and twice 8 on the stroke order screen (the painted character and the 8/8).
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
Hmm... it looks like this might be happening intermittently - sometimes the software shows the stroke order diagram from our simplified character data set, which correctly has 7 strokes, and other times it shows the diagram for the exact same character from the traditional one, which has that extra stroke.

Anyway, short-term the fix for this is to figure out why it's sometimes using simplified and force it to always use traditional; long-term, once we get the new CDL stroke order diagrams / component search implemented on Palm/WM that should make these considerably easier. (not that much code to write, but we'd have to charge an upgrade fee to cover the per-copy license costs for the new data and I'm a bit nervous about how people would react to that)
 

mfcb

状元
mikelove said:
long-term, once we get the new CDL stroke order diagrams / component search implemented on Palm/WM that should make these considerably easier. (not that much code to write, but we'd have to charge an upgrade fee to cover the per-copy license costs for the new data and I'm a bit nervous about how people would react to that)
if the upgrade fee is necessary to get component search i will quite happily squeeze it out of my pocket, hehe. only i dont like the word "long-term" at the start of the sentence...
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
There's actually a specific note about that in the ABC source database file - yi4 is apparently another valid pronunciation for this character and the correct one when it appears in "衣锦", they cite Matthews, Cihai, and Xiandai Hanyu Cidian as sources for that.
 

jiacheng

榜眼
noticed that 数码相机 is listed as shu4ma3xiang1ji1, I think it should be shu4ma3xiang4ji1, as 相机(camera) is listed as xiang4ji1
 

jiacheng

榜眼
Not sure if this is a problem or what, but i noticed that 赔不是 is listed as pei2bu4shi0.
when i hear most people pronounce it, it sounds like pei2bu2shi4, or possibly pei2bu2shi0.

Now i know that with sandhi tone changes, things might not be pronounced exactly as you see them in the dictionary, but how would the rules apply to this one? Since 是 is listed as neutral here, would the shandhi changes for 不 still apply since 是 is normally 4th tone?
 

koxinga

Member
  • The character 摋 in the entries 摋 and 拔摋 is represented as a traditional character, but there is no simplified equivalent.
  • In the entry 筱, there is a link which has not been made.
  • 骨碌 has two different entries, with 骨 in first and third tones, but they are not linked together.
  • There is an example without character in 各 ge4
  • In the entry 一旦 : in change of this project => in charge of this project
 

mikelove

皇帝
Staff member
jiacheng - yeah, 数码相机 does look like it should be xiang4ji1 - pronounced that way everywhere else in the dictionary anyway. The PLC/GF dictionaries use pei2bu4shi0 too, so on that I'm inclined to think the neutral-tone ending is correct; however, in the tone-sandhi-marked ABC on iPhone that bu is actually marked as being pronounced second-tone, so it seems like the tone change should indeed apply.

koxinga - the simplified version of 摋 isn't part of the Unicode standard, so it's not displayable with a normal Chinese font. It does render correctly in our iPhone software, though, if the stroke order add-on is installed, since it can use data from that database to render rare characters; the stroke order data set we licensed on Palm/WM doesn't have that expanded character coverage so it's not helpful for rendering that character. Good points on the missing links / examples, thanks!
 

jiacheng

榜眼
in ABC, 打弹子 aparently can also mean to play marbles as well as to play billiards.

in ABC, the traditional form of 蹦极[蹦極] is not listed.
 
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